old guy

FYI, some mosquito catchers work by using blue LEDs as bait. Blue LED light attracts mosquitos. You may wish to avoid the blue color during mosquito season. old guy

That's OK. I ended up buying the Sundance Optima. old guy

Don't buy anything without wet testing. A wet test is very revealing and can change your mind completely. We really liked the show room, tricked out, Artesian Opal, for features, but when we wet tested it, it felt like a kiddie spa. It was too small. Our legs were too crunched up. The rotary jest would be found stuck and needed adjustment to get them going again. Before the wet test, I was ready to buy. We liked the Artesian Pelican Bay, except the rotary jets would be found stuck and needed adjustment to get them going again. The footwell foot jets were also too weak to really massage the feet. It was too big for our location, and the price was high. We tried the Jacuzzi J480 and liked it alot, for fit and comfort, but all the jets seemed too weak, the lounger was too short. The lounger foot jets only hit the heels of your feet. The lounger calf jets could hardly be felt. The MXX Elite spa we tried felt too crowded and cluttered when you sat in it. The sequencer lounger seemed overrated once I tried it. I would not have bought one anyway, since I feel that full foam is the only way to go in the colder parts of Canada. Also, mixing fibre board and water usually ends up badly. They reinforce their tubs with some sort of fibre board looking material. We did not even look at the Sundance Optima, when we wet tested the Artesian spas, in the same show room. In the end, we came back to wet test the Sundance Optima, and both of us instantly realized it was the best spa for us. Before we tried the Optima, we were disappointed in the whole shopping for a spa process. We were starting to talk about putting in a sauna instead, for half the price. Once we wet tested the Optima, the sauna was fogotten. Above all else wet test. old guy

Around here you, need a pool fence to meet code. old guy

Sorry, you are spending so much. You are right that preparing for and installing the hot tub can be very expensive. Here is the tale of two tubs. Tub #1 Friends of ours bought a Costco spa with all the bells and whistles for $6000, and then had to pay $400 for delivery. They had a contractor put in a reinforced concrete pad, at about $1000, and they are building a deck around the tub, that will cost a few thousand dollars - their yard is not fenced, and by code they need a "fenced" deck to provide a safe enclosure. Their hot tub did not come with an outside switch box, or the GFI breaker, and there electrical panel is at the extreme opposite corner of the house. They had to pay the electrician for the switch box and GFI breaker. I heard the figure $1800 for the electrical, but I think he did some of the work himself and brought it down to around $900. Their deal tub, did not come with chemicals either, so they had to buy those too. By the time they are finished, they wll be over $12000. They will have no ongoing dealer support, and the company that made their tub is bankrupt, so they have no warranty. Then they will also be dealing with Ottawa winters, using a tub without full foam insulation. I have read complaints of over $100/month increase in hyrdo bills, for those specific tubs. Tub #2 We bought a Sundance Optima, with all the bells and whistles, from a dealer, and it is going on the existing interlock patio, that surrounds our inground pool, which already has a pool fence. Our main electrical panel is right beside the hole in the corner of the spa, where the power line goes in. Our spa also came with the outside electrical switch box and GFI breaker, that was included in the price. Also included in the price were stairs, cover lifter, spa wand, delivery, and chemicals. Our total cost will also be over $12000. We will have a warranty, ongoing dealer support, and a full foam spa tub, better suited to severe Canadian winters. Moral of the story. We had a very good spot to put our tub, that left us with minimal cost to install the tub, and our dealer included just about everything needed to get up and running. It makes a big difference. old guy

Doesn't sound good, unless it is a huge slab that is many times bigger than the spa. You need to measure the actual slope of the slab over the length and width of the spa. I called my dealer to see if I am OK since my interlock patio is 3/8" out of level. I am perfectly level side to side, at both the front and back, but have a 3/8" down slope from back to front. The dealer said that I am OK. He says that amount of slope allows for drainage, and that the small amount of slope is "nothing" to be concerned about. I am happy to hear that. I was ready to go out and rent a compactor to try to level it more. So, it seems that perfectly level is not absolutely required. So, how much slope is really tolerable? old guy

We wet tested the J480 too. I found the lounger calf jets to be so weak that they are useless. The lounger foot jets just hit your heels, which is not where you want a foot message. You want the jets to hit the instep at least, preferrably the balls of your feet. However, the lounger was truly a no float lounger. Neither my wife nor I tended to even come close to floating out. I too noticed that the lounger seemed short. By comparison, the Artesian Pelican Bay lounger levitated me with the power of its jets, but the elbow rests keep me from floating out. I could almost fall asleep in the Pelican Bay lounger. old guy

We're in the same position, but have ruled out the Piper Glen as a truly 4 person spa. For that price, I want to seat six adults comfortably. IMO, the foot well is too small to seat more people without playing footsies, and only one side seats is reasonably comfortable unless you are a child or a midget. The Jacuzzi is a deeper tub and raises the side seat bottoms compared to the corner seats, but no too much, so that at six feet tall, I only have my shoulders out of the water. Those seats are still usable, and reasonably comfortable. The J480 will seat 6 comfortably without having to do contortions or play footsies. The Piper Glen is actually smaller than the Emerald of the Artesian Gold line. I measured corner to corner at the back of the head rests, using a tape measure. Three inches shorter in one direction and 2 inches in the other. The Emerald has a larger footwell than the Piper Glen, and the foot jets are stronger, judging by the Opal that we wet tested. (The Opal felt like a kiddie spa - too small) If you work on your feet all day, the stronger foot massage is welcome. You could seat 6 or 7 in the Emerald or the Pelican Bay, but I just don't see it in the other Artesian models. I did not have a chance to wet test the Emerald, but I dry tested the seating and did not find it to be as comfortable as the Jacuzzi. The Jacuzzi is a deeper tub and so the seating is more comforable, since you don't sit in such deep holes, with your legs so pushed up. I found that the Gold and Platinum Artesian spas have much more powerful jets with a more therapeutic rotary action, but they seem to get stuck now and again, and they have to be adjusted to get them going again. I found the Jets on the Artesian would be pushing me out of the seats, so I would turn them down. They really give a strong deep kneading massage. The Artesian jets are ball bearing jets, and so you will have to start replacing them after two to five years, at $20-$25 a pop, when they start to wear out. The direct flow jet controllers on the Artesian Patinum series are much better than the Jacuzzi diverters. The Jacuzzi, jets seem weak compared to the Artesian jets. The Jacuzzi uses two 56 frame pumps and a circulating pump. The Artesian uses more pumps with some sort of new switchless motors that they claim will last tens of years, instead of hundreds of hours. I have seen no proof that this is true, but that's what they claim. So you get to choose. Do you want to replace motors in seven to ten years or jets every two to five years? Do you want a really good therapeutic deep kneading massage, or a lighter message with more comfort, for more people? I found the lighting on the Artesian more elaborate. The Jacuzzi stereo sounded better than the Artesian Platinum stereo. Apparently the Artesian sound system was designed by Bose (that's what they said) and it does have that typically terrible Bose sound - all screechy tweeter and booming sub woofer, with zero mid-range. I just wanted to cover my ears and turn it down or turn if off. It's not so bad as low level background music, but don't turn it up loud. It sounds awful. We use comercial DJ speakers (JBL MR925s and a Yorkville Sub) in our pool area in the summer, and I guess I have been spoiled. The Jacuzzi sound system was at least tolerable. It was OK at higher volumes. The taller Jacuzzi will not fit through my 42" pool fence gate, and I would have to remove a section of fence to get it in. No big deal. It's a steel fence and comes apart and re-assembles easily. The Jacuzzi has full foam insulation just like the Artesian, which is much more suited to northern climates. The Jacuzzi and Artesian both employ pressure treated wood internal frames. The Pelican Bay has a 92" X 108" footprint. The Emerald and the J470 both have a 91" X 91" footprint. The J480 has a 94" x 94" footprint. The J470 has to give up the 3 inches somewhere, and it does this in the footwell on the opposite side of the tub from the stairs. I found that while the J480 provided good room for 6 people, the J470 was shorter on footwell space, due to losing that 3 inches. The Jacuzzi has a complete ABS bottom tray, while the Artesian use a thick ABS sheet and pressure treated wood around the bottom. The Artesian seemed quieter during operation, but I tested them on separate days in different places, so it is hard to say for sure. With the pricing we got, the Jacuzzi falls about half way between the Emerald and the Pelican Bay. Bottom line for us is that if I am going to pay that much for a spa, I want to sit six people comfortably. I want the unit to be reliable. At this time I am leaning towards the Jacuzzi, if we buy at all. You can get a really top notch custom sauna installed for half the price, so we are also considering that, since we already have an inground swimming pool. Update: We pulled the trigger on a spa purchase. After wet testing the Sundance Optima, we knew right away that it was the best choice for us. The price was comparable to a similarly equiped Artesian Emerald, which helped make the choice easier. The Sundance Optima, had the best footwell space. All the side seat seat-bottoms are raised up, so they are not uncomforatable to sit in. Users will not be as immersed in those side seats, but they will be comforatable. (Someone needs to make a high end round tub with all corner seats and a deep or big foot well.) The jets are noticeably more powerful than the Jacuzzi, but not as powerfull as the Artesian. They are just fine however, for delivering a good massage. I found the Artesian jets too strong, and would turn them down anyway. IMO the wigwag type jets do not give as good a massage as the Artesian rotary jets, but they seems better built to last, do not get stuck, and they are noticeably better than the Jacuzzi jets. The footwell foot jets are very strong and give a good massage for someone who works on their feet, or, who spent the day in ski boots, or hiking. They are much stronger than the Artesian Platinum series foot jets and stronger than the Jacuzzi foot jets. Both of those fail to provide a real massage. They are not quite as strong as the Artesian Gold series foot jets, which do provide a good kneading foot massage, with their power and swirling action. You have to move you foot around over the Sundance foot jets to get a kneading sensation. There are jets for the calves in two seats and these are good and strong, for a decent massage. IMO the stereo, is close to the Jacuzzi and better than the Artesian. It occurs to me that the salesman may have had the subwoofer turned up way too high on the Artesian. That seems to be the tendancy with Bose like systems. The user feels there is something missing, because there is no midrange, and tries to compensate by turning up the subwoofer. This only serves to make the big hole in midrange even more obvious. Setting the sub flat usually sounds best with these systems. The sound is very tiny like the speakers, high frequency biased, and you have this thumping boom boom from the overdriven sub. To me this sounds awful. When I wet tested the Jacuzzi and the Sundance, I brought my own MP3 player, and the first thing I did was to turn down the subwoofer to neutral, to eliminate the booming. This seemed to improve the quaility of the sound reproduction considerably. This may be part of the reason I found the sound on the Jacuzzi and Sundance stereo systems better. The Jacuzzi has four solid mounted speakers, that sound less tinny than the two Artesian cylandrical popup speakers. The Sundance has two popup speakers too, but the popup casings are oval and wider, so I am guessing the speakers are bigger. They seem to produce more midrange. Due to being on different work schedules this week, my wife and I had to try the Sundance tub separately. She felt the same as I did. We both independently found it the best choice for us. Bottom line is that you get good value for the money. It is a party tub for six, but still gives a good therapeutic massage to all the key areas. I can see why it is any award winning tub. We also check out Coast spas, Hydropool Spas, and Beachcomber spas, but did not see anything that we wanted to wet test. The insulation on the Hyrdopool models was not full foam, and we did not even consider these, since we live in the coldest national capital in the world. We also wet tested the top of the line Elite spa, by MAXX. I have to comment on the Elite. It is flashy, with lots of chrome jets and a sequencing lounger. Every seat is comfortable with one person in the spa. However, for the number of seats, the foot well is too cramped. Two people sitting beside each other is crowded. The insulation is not very impressive for a cold climate. They use some sort of chipboard backing for their spa shell. This seems very unwise. Mixing chipboard and water always seems to end badly. The lack of full foam insulation, and the chipboard sent me packing without even considering it as an option. There may have been other spas that would be better for us than the Sundance Optima, but we could only try so many and not all are available at dealers in our area. old guy

Greetings, I am considering buying the Artesian Quail Ridge, since we do not have space for the Pelican Bay. The dealer has a Pelican Bay to wet test, but does not have a Quil Ridge in stock. The seats are suppost to be the same, but the Quail Ridge is a 34 inch high tub, while the Pelican Bay is 37 inches high. My wife wet tested the Pelican Bay, and preferred the seats over the Opal model that we are also considering. The salesman says the Quail Ridge has the same seat backs and you sit just as deep in the water, compared to the Pelican Bay. I would guess that that means the height of the seat bottoms is three inches lower, compared to the tub bottom, so that the user would be in a more knees to the chin position when there are five people in the tub and there is no room to stretch out your legs. Can anyone provide some information about this? old guy