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Identify Coating On Spa Shell, Help With Next Steps/actions


lanceuep

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Hello all! I am hoping to get some help/advice for my Hot Spot spa that's ~6 months old. I will cut to the chase early, and then do the explaining at the end as the more experienced may not even need to read my story before making suggestions.

My spa has a white, soft coating on the entire shell. It was solid at one point, and would wipe away with just a finger swipe. So I used a towel to wipe the entire shell down. It didn't all go away, so you can now see where some remains. Is this scale/calcium buildup?

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I am curious to know what exactly it is, so I can then research on my own. I have been told by support of the chemical company (Leisure Time) that they don't think it's scale/calcium buildup, so I have no idea how to research resolutions (assuming they are correct).

My #1 problem currently is the buildup on the shell. Alongside the buildup, is foam when the jets are on. I'm not too concerned about it, and think I need to avoid worrying about it until I resolve the underlying issue. But here are some photos, literally less than a minute after turning the jets on.

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The Beginning

When I purchased the spa, I was given Silk Balance and Spa Guard Enhanced Shock to maintain the spa. I was told to just put a capful of the shock in, along with a measured amount of the Silk Balance, once/week. I started to get quite a bit of foam after a couple of weeks, and I wanted to go more of a natural route so I drained and refilled.

The Experiment

I read about people using Essential Oils to maintain their spa, and everything on the internet is true, so I gave it a shot. It actually worked and I had no issues for a couple of months. But I started to get very small amounts of what I presume to be mold on the underside of my cover, as well as around the controls on the edge of the spa. It made me really nervous, so I decided to switch back to a chemical solution.

Leisure Time Free

I don't have any skin issues with Chlorine/Bromine, but I saw the Leisure Time Free sanitizing system and thought I would give it a shot. To make sure I did a good cleaning, I used Jet Clean in my old water as recommended by Leisure Time. I drained the tub, refilled with fresh water, drained the tub, then refilled a second time with fresh water.

Following Leisure Time's protocol, I first balanced the pH/TA. From the faucet, my pH was high. This took me 3-4 days because the product bottles had me using teaspoon measurements to lower the pH, and it wasn't moving anywhere. So I finally got to the point where I bumped up the amount of Leisure Time Spa Down I was putting in, and got the pH balanced correctly.

I then added pH Balance by Leisure Time, which is supposed to help keep pH from fluctuating. I then added Leisure Time Control, Boost and Free, all products of the Free sanitizing system. The Control and Boost is added based off the size of your spa. The Free is added and measured via test strips.

Cloudy

The following day I went to check on the spa and the water was extremely cloudy. I couldn't see an inch down into it. So I looked up suggestions on their website and after re-testing the water, saw I needed to bump pH up slightly with Spa Up. I then added another round of Boost, as their site suggests it will clear up cloudy water. It almost cleared up instantly, so I was in business.

Orange Sticky Goo

After running the spa for an hour or so, I noticed the waterline started to collect orange, sticky specs. When you touch it with your fingers, it's very sticky. So much so that if you use a paper towel to wipe it up, the paper towel will stick/tear when you swipe it across the spa shell. After doing research, I found reviews on Amazon that state the "Control" product of this system causes this sticky goo, so its usage is to be minimized. I used a solution of 50/50 vinegar/water to get the goo cleaned up.

The following day, more goo was there. Any time the jets run, the goo collects above the water on the shell. I was literally cleaning up the goo every day, with it somewhat being minimized. I kept telling myself it's probably just because I used the Jet Clean, so "gunk" is being flushed out the system. (And remember, my spa is only 6 months old or so, and I bought it brand new.)

White Film on Shell / Foam

Fast forward a couple of days later, when I noticed that if I swiped my finger on the shell under the water line, you could see my finger swipe mark. There was a white chalky/film layer on the entire shell. I hadn't noticed it because I had yet to get in the tub, and it was uniform everywhere so I couldn't tell it existed. It wiped up easily with a towel, so I got in the tub with a towel and wiped the entire shell.

Gunk/goo still continued to build up, and foam has been introduced as a new issue (see pics above). Additionally, although I wiped the whole surface of the shell, it appears the white film/chalky layer is still present in a lot of areas, perhaps where it was thicker and I didn't wipe long enough with the towel to get it off.

Assuming Calcium Build Up

Because the pH was high out of the faucet when I filled the tub, I assumed calcium had fallen out of the water and coated the shell. So during research, I found that you can lower the pH to 7 or so, and the water should absorb the calcium back in on its own. So I lowered the pH and ran the tub a couple of times per day, for a couple days, with no change in the chalky/film layer on the shell. It wasn't disappearing.

Leisure Time Support

After calling Leisure Time Support, they suggested I purchase another one of their products, Spa Defender to help prevent scaling. So I did as an apparent die-hard Leisure Time fan, and it hasn't done anything to remedy the situation. Support also had me raise my CH as it was around ~100-120, thinking that may help. It hasn't.

Next Steps

I'm curious what my next steps should be. Should I get in the water and scrub the shell? The film does come off with scrubbing. Or should I try something else? My main concern is that I see it on the shell, so it's obviously coating the equipment, heating element, piping, etc. Do I get AhhSome and see if that will clear it out? Do I drain the tub and scrub with some sort of cleaner while it's empty to help remove whatever is on the shell?

I'm thinking of going the Nitro Water Maintenance route, but I want to be sure I set myself up for the most success prior to emptying/refilling the tub.

Theories / Questions

Could this all stem from out-of-date product? The local place I bought most of the products, the bottles were dusty and had been shelved for quite a while it appeared.

Is the Leisure Time Free system just not something that's easy to work with?

Did I really spend $100s on all of these Leisure Time products, only to throw them away?

Thank you to all who read my troubles, and to those who are so gracious to attempt to help me. Your time is greatly appreciated!

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Adding a disinfectant only once a week is ridiculous. That's the primary problem. In between your additions bacteria were able to grow, probably forming biofilms and you don't have enough oxidizer to break down bather waste nor prevent foaming.

You are just throwing in product after product after product because someone who makes a profit selling these to you is telling you to do so. You need to decide whether or not you want to take charge of your spa or if you want to continue to spend hundreds of dollars with people who have no interest whatsoever in helping you solve your problem even if they knew how, which most don't.

You also need to decide if you are going to continue to pursue "alternative" systems in spite of clearly having them fail on you.

First off, if you have never used Ahh-Some, you should do so before you next change the water. It will help get rid of biofilms, greases, and other contaminants that have likely built up in your spa because it has not been properly maintained.

Next, you need to decide whether you want to use chlorine, bromine, or Nature2 with MPS, assuming you want to use an EPA-approved disinfectant. To help make that determination you need to answer two questions: 1) how often do you use the spa (i.e. every day or two or only on weekends, etc.) and 2) do you have an ozonator?

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Thanks for the reply. I'm here for help and to learn, and know what I have done in the past and current isn't working, so I hope that was clear.

I ordered Ahh-Some yesterday, it's going to be here today. I'm just not sure if using it will get rid of whatever is currently on the shell (and obviously within the whole system).

The spa will be used 3-5 times/week, mostly by just myself. I was using it plenty before things started going south. No ozonator.

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With your more frequent usage then after you use Ahh-Some you can use the Dichlor-then-bleach method as described in the sticky Dichlor/bleach Method In A Nutshell, but with two differences. The TA should be lowered to 50 ppm (80 ppm is too high) and the use of 50 ppm Borates (usually from boric acid from Duda Diesel or from The Chemistry Store) is not optional. Also, in addition to initially using Dichlor to build up the CYA level to around 30-40 ppm, you need to use Dichlor for a day per month to maintain the CYA level; the rest of the time bleach (or chlorinating liquid) is used. It must be unscented regular bleach, NOT "outdoor" or "splash-less" which have thickeners that can foam.

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Outstanding - thank you for all the help chem geek. I am going to report back with what I've done just to document/log everything. If I have any questions specifically I will be sure to ask, but I know there is a lot of info already posted that will get me headed in the right direction. The AhhSome is here, so I will be doing some work this weekend on the tub.

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AhhSome

After receiving AhhSome in the mail, I added 3 3/4 teaspoons into the hot tub water and turned the jets on full per the AhhSome instructions. (1 teaspoon for every 100 gallons, and I have a 375 gallon tub).

The foaming was insane. It foamed up and over the side walls of the tub. After 30-45 minutes, I shut the jets off to let the foam settle down and I was expecting to see a lot of gunk on the tub walls like the AhhSome video shows. There wasn't much of anything to be seen. The "scaling" or residue from previous chemicals was still on the walls of the tub, and there wasn't a gunk line or anything that formed.

I drained the tub.

Cleaning Scale/Residue

I then used a brush made for hot tubs, and applied a small amount of Leisure Time Cleanse to the brush. It's an oil/gel consistency made to get hard-to-clean things off the walls of the tub. I rinsed a section off with water, and then began scrubbing. For vertical walls, the "scale" or residue came off somewhat quickly. For horizontal surfaces like the seats, it took more work. I originally tried a white vinegar/water mix, but it just wouldn't come off...hence reverting to the Leisure Time product.

Here is when the tub was drained:

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And then after scrubbing for a couple of hours:

IMG_3002.JPG

I rinsed the tub off, filled it, drained it, sucked out remaining with shop vac, rinsed and sucked out remaining with shop vac again, then filled it.

Initial Testing

My initial testing based off Taylor K-2006 kit is:

pH = 8.2 estimated (definitely above 8, but doesn't look much over it)

TA = 100

CH = 100

Lowering TA

With those numbers, I went to the poolcalculator site. I entered 375 for size in gallons, 102 for Temperature, set TA boxes to 100/50 (100 is NOW, 50 is TARGET...took a second to figure out how the calculator worked). At the bottom I selected "Traditional Spa" for the Setup.

By default, the calculator doesn't show you what you need to add to drop the TA, in the location you would expect. After searching the forums, I thankfully found the post that explained that you need to scroll down to the bottom Effects of adding chemicals section. You can type in manual ounces and select dry acid, or whatever chemical you are adding, to figure out how the pH and TA may change. In my case, I selected dry acid because I am using Leisure Time Spa Down which is just Sodium Bisulfate.

Adding 6.5oz of Dry Acid will drop the TA by 50, which is exactly what I need. However I only added 3oz of that, based off the recommendation by Spa Guru in the Lowering Total Alkalinity post.

Side Note: I'm not going to be treating the spa with Leisure Time products. But for items that are just a simple ingredient, I am using them because I have them available and have already purchased them. Their sanitation products, etc, won't be touched and will be thrown out.

After 60 minutes with jets/waterfall on high, I tested the TA and came out with 80. To drop TA by 30 to get to my 50 target, I need 4oz of dry acid. So I added 2oz to the tub, and let it run for 30 minutes.

TA is now 70. To reach my target I need to lower 20, which is 2.75oz according to the calculator. I will add 1.5oz of dry acid tomorrow, as I am out of time for the night to allow the tub to run full blast with the cover off.

In preparation for the next steps after the TA is dropped to 50, I have ordered Boric Acid (received) and Kem-Tek 005 Concentrated Chlorinating Granules (Sodium Dichloro-s-Triazinetrione). I will pick the bleach up locally, provided I can find unscented, original versions.

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Adding 1.5oz of dry acid this morning and running jets for 30 mins proved to do the trick and get my TA in line to my goal of 50. Unfortunately the pH is extremely high still, showing 8.0 (or higher, since it's off the scale). I will let the water sit and re-test this afternoon. But according to the Lowering Total Alkalinity post, since my Target is right on track for TA but my pH is high, I need to lower my TA target. So perhaps I will lower in 5ppm increments to see when the pH drops? Unfortunately according to the calculator however, it doesn't appear that pH will drop that much, and instead the TA will be lowered drastically so I'm not sure that's the route I need to take.

I see that dichlor will lower the pH, so perhaps I can count on that process to help get me in the right place? But I don't want to jump ahead, if I'm supposed to have a balanced pH at this step before moving forward.

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After letting the water sit for the first half of the day without heavy aeration/jets running, the pH still remains at the high end of the scale. A re-test of the TA shows it's likely 55-60. On the 6th drop of the test kit, the pink/red color changes just ever so slightly to be more bold/saturated. So I'm assuming ~55. To drop 10 down, I need to add 1.3oz of dry acid. So again, following the suggestion for lowering total alkalinity, I only added half that, .65oz and I have the jets/waterfall running for aeration. Will re-test in 30 minutes.

Re-test had TA at 50, with pH still on the high end of the scale. Adding another .65oz of dry acid to lower TA a bit more and hopefully see an adjustment in pH.

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pH measurement after another .65oz of dry acid is still at least 8.0, if not higher since the measurement only goes to 8.0. TA is now 40.

I'm not sure where to go from here. The articles state to adjust the TA target since pH is too high, so I would be adjusting TA to something even lower. At this point, it seems like I'm not going to get a good pH until around 30TA, maybe even 20-25TA. @chem geek, should I keep dropping TA? This is water fresh from the line, with the only thing added being the dry acid.

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Based on research on the forums, I am lowering my TA again with .65oz of dry acid. From reading, my understanding is a low pH will cause harm, and I shouldn't be too worried about a low TA. Because my pH won't drop, I am testing to see how low the TA needs to be in order for the pH to finally drop. So I am going another increment down in TA to see if that finally drops the pH. I'm basing this off reading the stated remarks that you should find the lower TA value that makes YOUR spa drop the pH. So I'm working to find what *my* TA minimum is, and then per suggestions, may raise it back up 10ppm and maintain at that level? We will see what this latest round of .65oz of dry acid does. (I'm circulating for 30 minutes before testing, but I have closed off aeration to all jets/waterfall. I think previously by adding the dry acid and immediately having full aeration, I was perhaps counter-balancing the changes by never letting the pH drop?)

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That did it! Lowering TA slightly finally dropped the pH to a solid 7.6. My TA is measuring 40, possibly 45. On the 4th drop, the solution goes from a grey/pink to a very saturated pink. On the 5th drop, I THINK the solution goes a bit darker, but it's hard to tell if that's just my imagination. So I'm assuming I'm around 40 TA.

Current Numbers

pH = 7.6

TA = 40

CH = 100 (re-tested at this point just to be certain)

I will now add 50ppm Borates via Boric Acid. According to the pool calculator, my 375 gallon spa needs 14oz by weight.

I also have added .9oz of dichlor to do the initial shock of 10ppm FC, which was calculated again from the pool calculator.

Current Chlorine values after 30 minutes of circulation:

FC = 4.5 (Took 9 drops, using the 10mL measurement with each drop equivalent to .5ppm)

CC = .5

Not sure why FC didn't rise to 10ppm as assumed from the calculator. Adding another .5oz of dichlor to raise FC some more. (Worked. FC = 10, CC = 1)

Will check in 24 hours per the Dichlor/Bleach guide to see what FC is and to then calculate Chlorine Demand.

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24 hours later.

FC = 7

This means my Chlorine Demand (CD) is 30%.

pH = 7 or less

TA = 40

Because my pH took a massive drop, I'm raising my TA to 50 to get to that sweet spot. I'm raising TA by adding 1oz of Baking Soda per the pool calculator. I will then check pH, and aerate to pull it up.

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TA up to 50, which sent pH up to ~7.7. Will soak tomorrow for first time, looking forward to it.

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  • 2 years later...

I am having the same problem with the white scale build up and the white vinegar did not work :( I went to order the Leisure Time Cleanse and it says to be used ONLY above the water line...you used it on the seats and walls?? How many times did you rinse and drain? Thanks for any advice you can give me! Judy

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