New NW tub owner

I disagree with this. I think it's fine to buy over the internet (or from costco) as long as you know that that is what you are getting. I am a DIY guy and I never expected (nor would have wanted) some tech to come out to my house and fix my tub, if it needed it. In my case, the Costco tub option was a great one that let me get a great deal on a tub. Obviously, though, if you are not a do-it-yourselfer, it is not a good option. If I were going to buy another new tub, I would look at the tubs that are being sold on ebay which look to be good deals, as long as you can handle the installation and setup yourself. There is no way that I would have ever gone done to some dealer and plunked down 10 grand for something like a hot tub. Never.

If dishwashers were sold like hot tubs, the dishwashers would cost $3,000 per copy, be manufactured by 200 different companies, produce widely inconsistent results depending on which model from which manufacturer you bought, cost anywhere from $1 to $100 per month to run, and require that you purchase parts and service only from the manufacturer of your model which you could only buy at a store operated by one of his dealers. What's needed first for hot tubs are consistent standards, established by an independent hot tub standards-setting organization, for energy efficiency, shell construction, structural strength, piping assembly, electrical connections, control configuration, and shell penetrations that all manufacturers would have to meet before their tub could carry a seal of approval from the standards body. Next, there needs to be consolidation in the hot tub manufacturing industry that would allow a few surviving large manufacturers to produce hot tubs in much larger volumes and achieve manufacturing economies of scale. Finally, the overall design of hot tubs needs to be simplified and made more reliable to improve the out of the box experience for the consumer. With current technology, it should be possible any consumer to take a tub home, connect it up, fill it with water, add chemicals to the dispenser, turn it on, and have everything happen as it is supposed to without the need for any support by a hot tub dealer. This is the standard that we expect for refrigerators, washing machines, televisions, and other household appliances and there is no reason why hot tubs should be any different. So what should consumers do? Give your support to any hot tub manufacturer who supports the idea of independent hot tub industry standards and testing. Request that Consumer s Union perform independent hot tub testing. Contact your local electrical utility and municipal government and request their support for the idea of minimum energy efficiency standards for hot tubs, as hot tubs are a significant user of power on the electrical grid. Tell them, for example, that all hot tubs should be required to include a timer option to perform their heating only during off-peak hours when electrical demand is lower. What should hot tub makers do? You should begin investigating ways to merge with other manufacturers to increase manufacturing volume, improve manufacturing efficiency, and lower manufacturing costs. You should join with other manufacturers to form an independent standards-setting organization for hot tubs whose purpose would be to establish standards that all manufacturers would meet. And you should plan on a distribution model for the future that does not exclusively require a network of costly dealer-operated stores staffed by an army of sales and service people.

It looks like Hydrospa might have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. A primary reason may have been that their reputation was severely damaged by the Hydrospa-bashing that has been carried out on this forum for the last 12 months. The bashing might have caused Hydrospa to lose millions of dollars in sales which could have weakened them financially. Hydrospa should have their lawyers identify the chief bashers, some of whom work for competitors, and hold them financially responsible for the damage they have caused to both Hydrospa and Hydrospa s customers. Who should be responsible? People who pointed to Hydrospa piping and claimed that it was defective in design had better be prepared to show why with either calculations or demonstrations. People who pointed to Hydrospa insulation and claimed that it was not effective had better be prepared to show that with either calculations, testing, or actual experience as an owner. People who posted blurry pictures of poorly-insulated tubs and claimed that they were a Hydrospa tub will need to show that the tub in the picture was, in fact, a Hydrospa tub. People who claimed that Hydrospa tubs were prone to leakage had better be prepared to show that they had a reasonable basis for their claim, such as personally seeing a significant number of Hydrospa tubs leaking or owning a Hydrospa tub that leaked. In general, people who posted disparaging, factually-incorrect information about Hydrospa tubs will need to show that they made a good-faith effort to obtain their information before posting it. It s time for accountability and the responsible parties should be held responsible for the damage they have caused.

I told you what the controller isn't as well as what it is. It's a Balboa controller that works well and is very similar to the one Balboa sells directly. I own one. You don't. I don't know if it costs more or less than a 'standard' controller but I would expect it would be less, based on a volume deal. No, the effect of the 180 or 90s is insignificant. Here's why. On my tub, the water enters two filter cartridges, then flows directly to the circ pump intake, then flows out of the pump, through the heater, then out of the heater to a tee where some of the flow goes through the ozonator venturi and most of the rest goes to three nozzles around the tub. I've never measured it but the total flowrate is probably about 30 gpm which is about right for the size of my tub. The flowrate is determined by the flow resistance of ALL of the piping components. The filter, the bends to the suction, the bends out of the suction, the flow resistance in the heater (probably the most significant), the total length of pipe from the filter to the nozzles, the bends on the way to the nozzles, the flow resistance in the pipe fittings and valves, etc. The increased resistance of two 90s is trivially small compared with the flow resistance of the entire system so eliminating those 90s would have an insignificant effect on the flowrate. Moreover, the flow resistance of the entire system is not significant and is part of the overall design. All centrifugal pumps REQUIRE a certain amount of flow resistance in the system piping just to operate at the proper part of their pumping curve. No, passing a slightly larger flowrate through the heater will not reduce the heat time. The heat time is affected only by the heat input of the heater. If the flowrate were low, the outlet water would just be at a higher temperature. If the flowrate were high, the outlet water would be at a lower temperature but the heat input would be the same. In fact, this idea is part of the basis for the Balboa M7 technology which monitors the inlet and out temperatures through the heater along with the heater input to determine the flowrate without needing to actually measure the flowrate directly.

Your "factual evidence" here is wrong. The controller, at least in my tub, is a not a 'VS' series but a Balboa 2000 series controller with M7 technology that seems to be a l slightly-modified version of the Balboa 2000LE model that Balboa sells. The major difference is that my heater is 4,000 watt while the 'standard' Balboa unit has a 5,500 watt heater. Taking the 180 fitting out and using a side-discharge pump will not improve flow (which is already fine BTW) and it will have zero effect on heat time which is determined by the heater input.

Suppose you're right and there are a wave of people returning their tubs to Costco? What would Costco do? Send them back to Hydrospa? Not possible for a company in Chapter 11. No, Costco would just turn around and unload the now-used tubs on a consignment house who would then sell them for...what? $3000? $2000? Or...maybe $500? Whatever. The end result would be that there would then be a wave of very inexpensive tubs dumped on the marketplace to be bought by people who wouldn't be buying new tubs from you. Of course, maybe those former costco tub owners would come and buy new tubs from you but again, not likely, since they would look at your tubs and see how much more they cost than the tub they could buy at Costco and would instead go back to Costco and buy...another new hot tub from the NEW costco hot tub supplier! See how that works? Either way, you lose. Enjoy.

Gotta love it! Isn't a true rumor commonly called a FACT? :D And isn't it amazing how quickly some factual material was turned up, even while NewNW continued to rant (instead of seeking the facts for himself)? If the US market continues soft, perhaps more companies will hit the wall. Let's hope the APSP marketing initiative is successful - we will all benefit. Got Spa? Maybe you love it, but posting viscious rumors is wrong, even if they do turn out to later be true. For example, I could post that your company, Arctic Tubs, is on the verge of bankruptcy even if I don't have any factual information about that. That doesnt' make it right later if you do end up filing for bankruptcy. In fact, it would be even worse because the very act of spreading viscious rumors might have weakened sales of Arctic tubs, accelerating the plunge into bankruptcy. See how that works? And no, you have no obligation to research every rumor to see if it might turn out to be true.

My tub has never leaked, nor have most of the tubs they sold at Costco. The 'bad name' came from the disinformation campaign by the anti-hydrospa people in the hot tub industry here.

You certainly bashed Hydrospa and Costco tubs at every opportunity but I don't think that had any effect on foreign exchange rates. My tub has proper insulation, a good spa pack and good plumbing so you won't improve it but...I am sure that, with Hydrospa gone, you WILL "sell it for thousands more" which is what this is all about, isn't it? As far as apologies, it's not my fault that you're a *** so why apologize? <laugh>

Yeah, the scummy anti-Hydrospa sh*theads waged a 12-month disinformation campaign against Hydrospa and Costco hot tubs that probably helped to drive them out of business. They deserve the back of the hand, not sweet talk. And it was sleazy to post a lot of rumors about Hydrospa in lieu of real information, even if the rumors turned out to be true. It has been eye-opening to me how sleazy the hot tub business is. There are no real standards , no oversight, no self-policing, nothing. If you buy a tub, the only standard that it might meet would be UL laboratories and that would only be for the controller/heater and even that's not a for sure thing. There are no prices anywhere. The used car business looks positively wholesome by comparison. Costco and Hydrospa brought a breath of fresh air into the hot tub racket by offering a single-model, reasonanble-quality tub with a good set of features for a nationwide low price.

yeah, you sound all broken up about it. Right. Well, maybe Hydro is hurting financially but they had the right idea about hot tubs which is to make a simple, reliable, inexpensive tub in large quantities. Most of the hot tub makers make small quantities of tubs with a huge variety of options and they charge a high price that puts them out of the reach of middle income buyers. Costco and Hydro sold a single model in one color for a kick-butt price. Maybe the price was TOO good but the idea was a good one and someone else will step forward to fill the gap. I hope that some other company steps forward to make tubs in volume at the hydro plant and use them to put you bums out of business.

Yeah, you rush here with the sleazy rumors that you have 'heard'. How upstanding of you...not. Bankruptcy is a PUBLIC process in the United States and any bankruptcy filing by Hydrospa would be a matter of PUBLIC record. If you had any actual information, you would have posted it. I don't care if you talked to 50 more companies who allegedly tell you stuff. If there was a hydrospa bankruptcy filing, it would be a matter of PUBLIC record. You can keep posting rumors until your little pinky drops off but it will do nothing to give you any credibility. Post the links to the public records. Post the links to actual businesses who publicly claim that Hydrospa owes them money. Creditors are not secretive about that. <laugh> Put up or shut up.

Re-read my posts. Mine are accurate, have contact names and numbers, and pictures to prove my issues. What do you have to back you up?? I have yet to see ANYTHING! Not one picture of your tub. Not one! Yeah, you posted some nonsense about "Christine" who allegedly left the company and you posted an 800 number that anyone could get. Yeah, you really 'proved' your issues. You are as phony as the handle you picked, "unhappyHYDROSPAowner" which you first used when you made your first post a few days ago. Just your choice of a handle says a lot about you: that you came here for one reason, that your attitude towards hydrospa was not going to change, that you have an agenda, that there is nothing other than that agenda that you are going to post about during your 'forum lifetime' here.

Rest assured that as soon as anyone has concrete information, you'll be the first to know! There is nothing secret about financial information of a company such as Hydrospa. Anyone here could get a Dun and Bradstreet report on them, or any other company here, in a few minutes. But the rumors are so much more damaging so let's go with those, right? Right along with the phony shill posts, the phony 'my-tub-is-crap-and-I'm-taking-it-back-to-Costco' posts, and the 'all-their-tubs-are-junk' posts from 'Roger-the-independent-repair-tech. ' This website is a cesspool and this thread is a new low, even for it. One thing that is obvious, though, is that Hydrospa must be dealing some serious hurt to the hot tub companies whose representatives hang out here so much. If Hydrospa were a financial weakling whose sales were insignificantly small, they would be ignored. Instead, they are the primary topic here most of the time.

Yeah, you rush here with the sleazy rumors that you have 'heard'. How upstanding of you...not. Bankruptcy is a PUBLIC process in the United States and any bankruptcy filing by Hydrospa would be a matter of PUBLIC record. If you had any actual information, you would have posted it.