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Marquis Epic Vs Caldera Elation Vs Sundance Maximus


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Thanks for everyones posts so far, very informative!

Narrowed our search down to these three, but have not wet tested the epic yet. Wondering if the Marquis brand is as good and efficient (quoted $14 month Canadian to run it hear in Niagara Falls) as the Caldera or Sundance. Is having a dedicated circ pump like the Caldera and Sundance superior to the Marquis dual speed?

Price wise:

Caldera 9500 (2007 model) Dealer in town

Marquis 8500 (2008 model) Dealer out of town but has a large and reputable operation

Sundance 5000 (used 2005 model)

Any other pros and cons with these three, or buying the Sundance used (it has sat a winter without water, a hose was replaced because of the frost and there looks like some mold around a few of the jets and handles).

EW

PS - I agree with the posts indicating preference for Caldera over Hotsprings because of higher jet pressure and comfort, otherwise the Vista would be in the running as well (for efficiency and reputation).

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Thanks for everyones posts so far, very informative!

Narrowed our search down to these three, but have not wet tested the epic yet. Wondering if the Marquis brand is as good and efficient (quoted $14 month Canadian to run it hear in Niagara Falls) as the Caldera or Sundance. Is having a dedicated circ pump like the Caldera and Sundance superior to the Marquis dual speed?

Price wise:

Caldera 9500 (2007 model) Dealer in town

Marquis 8500 (2008 model) Dealer out of town but has a large and reputable operation

Sundance 5000 (used 2005 model)

Any other pros and cons with these three, or buying the Sundance used (it has sat a winter without water, a hose was replaced because of the frost and there looks like some mold around a few of the jets and handles).

EW

PS - I agree with the posts indicating preference for Caldera over Hotsprings because of higher jet pressure and comfort, otherwise the Vista would be in the running as well (for efficiency and reputation).

I'd look between the Caldera and the Marquis MYSELF as the Sundance will not come with a manufacturer warranty, sat for a year, is 5k for a 3 yr old spa and I'm not a fan of the Maxxus confining layout (large spa only really seats 4) but otherwise Sundance is fine too. If you like all 3 make the wet tests and faith in dealer key elements. Per your other question, I personally prefer a circ pump for quietness, 24/7 ozone and energy efficiency but there are fans of both types and that really shouldn't be the deciding factor, you should get the one you like best.

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$8,500 is a absolute steal on an Epic.

All of the spas you mentioned are going to filter the water fine. Marquis actually used to use a circulation pump up until 2000. We found that our new system does a better job. I have talked to Marquis dealers who carry other brands with circulation pumps, and all of them have said that the water in the Marquis is easier to keep clean & clear.

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$8,500 is a absolute steal on an Epic.

All of the spas you mentioned are going to filter the water fine. Marquis actually used to use a circulation pump up until 2000. We found that our new system does a better job. I have talked to Marquis dealers who carry other brands with circulation pumps, and all of them have said that the water in the Marquis is easier to keep clean & clear.

I agree with the other posts, that seems to be a great deal on the Marquis Epic and I also think that Marquis' filtration system is superior to most other brands. The Caldera is already two years old and they just redesigned the Utopia Series, which I assume is what you are looking at. In this case, I would go with the Marquis.

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Marquis' filtration system offers true 360 degree exposure to the water, whereas brands with the filter built into the corner get less than half of that exposure. The little walls or slats built into the Marquis filter break the surface tension in the water and then the Vortex filter swirls the water completely around both of the filter cartridges. It also pulls water from the bottom of the spa and runs it through the Vortex system as well. It really is a great filtration system and one area where I think Marquis reigns supreme.

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Marquis' filtration system offers true 360 degree exposure to the water, whereas brands with the filter built into the corner get less than half of that exposure. The little walls or slats built into the Marquis filter break the surface tension in the water and then the Vortex filter swirls the water completely around both of the filter cartridges. It also pulls water from the bottom of the spa and runs it through the Vortex system as well. It really is a great filtration system and one area where I think Marquis reigns supreme.

However, water level is critical.

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Marquis' filtration system offers true 360 degree exposure to the water, whereas brands with the filter built into the corner get less than half of that exposure. The little walls or slats built into the Marquis filter break the surface tension in the water and then the Vortex filter swirls the water completely around both of the filter cartridges. It also pulls water from the bottom of the spa and runs it through the Vortex system as well. It really is a great filtration system and one area where I think Marquis reigns supreme.

However, water level is critical.

I know it sounds like I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I'd really like to hear the following:

A ) Doesn't the water get "stale" when the filter's not running?

B ) Isn't cycling on and off bad for the pump?

C ) Does it use more or less energy than a small circ pump running 24/7?

D ) Wouldn't the ozone be running less often than in a 24/7 circ pump?

I'm really not trying to pick on Marquis here, I'm just curious about this. I do see how the "vortex" thing may work, but I like the weir gate design in other spas too - there's an inevitable backflow when the filter pump shuts off, and a weir gate can trap all those "floaties" that would otherwise go back in the spa. On the other hand, I really like how the Marquis filter doesn't take up too much room (especially in a valuable corner seat). I also think the waterfall over the filter visually appealing - I generally don't like water features (most look like they came straight out of a 1970's custom van), but I think Marquis's design is very elegant.

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Marquis' filtration system offers true 360 degree exposure to the water, whereas brands with the filter built into the corner get less than half of that exposure. The little walls or slats built into the Marquis filter break the surface tension in the water and then the Vortex filter swirls the water completely around both of the filter cartridges. It also pulls water from the bottom of the spa and runs it through the Vortex system as well. It really is a great filtration system and one area where I think Marquis reigns supreme.

However, water level is critical.

I know it sounds like I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I'd really like to hear the following:

A ) Doesn't the water get "stale" when the filter's not running?

B ) Isn't cycling on and off bad for the pump?

C ) Does it use more or less energy than a small circ pump running 24/7?

D ) Wouldn't the ozone be running less often than in a 24/7 circ pump?

I'm really not trying to pick on Marquis here, I'm just curious about this. I do see how the "vortex" thing may work, but I like the weir gate design in other spas too - there's an inevitable backflow when the filter pump shuts off, and a weir gate can trap all those "floaties" that would otherwise go back in the spa. On the other hand, I really like how the Marquis filter doesn't take up too much room (especially in a valuable corner seat). I also think the waterfall over the filter visually appealing - I generally don't like water features (most look like they came straight out of a 1970's custom van), but I think Marquis's design is very elegant.

To answer your questions:

A ) The water doesn't get stale. The spa actually comes on every half hour and cycles the water for two minutes in order to make sure the temperature is where it should be. The spa also purges all of the plumbing lines twice a day in addition to the filtration and clean-up cycles. Another thing that prevents the water from being stale is the amount of water circulated each day. For instance, a Marquis will filter 3 to 4 times the amount of water as a HotSpring.

B ) A jet pump problem in a Marquis is very rare. We sell a considerable amount more of the Lang circulation pumps for older Marquis, than jet pumps for newer Marquis. Based on the amount of circ pumps we sell as compared to jet pumps, I would conclude that a pump that runs 24/7/365 with no rest is more likely to fail than a pump that turns on and off throughout the day.

C ) The energy usage is similar, if not better than most circulation pump systems.

D ) This may be the only advantage of a 24 hour circ pump. Although, some people will make the argument that having ozone running 24 hours a day is not necessary.

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Hey Cockburnfan, if anyone has quoted you $14 a month to run any spa in our weather, get that in writing, because I don't care what manufacture of hot tub it is, it is absolutlely impossible.

As for circ pump or 2 speed jet pump, the guys who have it, it's the best, the guys who don't, it is crap.

I truly believe in circ pumps, not Laing circ pumps, we went through that nightmare years ago.

But I am R+Ding a new Laing as we speak we will see.

Anyway just look at any motor and it will tell you how much energy consumption it will use.

Circ Pumps 1 1/4 amps. 2 Speed 5hp pumps avg. 14 amps. Circs run 24/7 always moving your water, 2 Speeds have to come on a minimum of 2 times a day for atleast 3 to 4 hours at a time, you do the math.

If you want to learn more about this come to see me at the factory, Sunrise Spas in Grimsby, I can show you more.

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14 dollars is quite a low estimate for the Epic up here in Canada. I'm not far from you in Kitchener, and have a 2008 Epic (which we LOVE by the way) and I figure it runs us about $30.00/mo in electricity during the winter months. Slightly lower in the summer of course. Out of the spas you're looking at, I would go Epic hands down.

Can I ask which dealer you are going through?

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  • 2 months later...

Personally, I have seen piles of dead circ pumps (OK maybe 30 - 40) at one of the spa factories that I used to work at....

I also have fixed one for an acquaintance. He bought a new spa at Home Depot (or similar) 3 years ago.

I replaced it for him recently.

I really think that if I were a manufacturer, I would seriously question whether or not I would install Circ pumps in my spas. Unless the sales (marketing) strategy is worth putting up with the breakdown factor. Maybe it is. (The "silent spa" thing...)

I know larger pumps fail as well, but my personal experience (20 years in the spa industry) leans me to think otherwise.

Also, $14 per month could possibly be categorized as a LIE......especially in the snow belt.....

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