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Electricity To Run Your Hot Tub?

22 posts in this topic

Just figured out I'm burning approx 310 kwhs per month more in winter is this normal?

I have a D1 and my bill was 735 Kwh billed this month (29days)

399 Kwh billed previous month (28days) I figure approx $61.00 per month in winter months

BASELINE RATE 315.000000 Kwh @ 0.11556

101-130% OF BASELINE 94.500000 Kwh@ 0.13139

131-200@ OF BASELINE 220.500000 Kwh @0.22708

201-300% OF BASELIINE 3.62069 Kwh @ 0.31555

They charge so much more after you use the Baseline up.

Selected bill:

3/25/2008 Last year:

3/28/2007 Bill Impact

Billing Days: 29 days 28 days $3

Average Cost per kWh: $0.1578 / kWh $0.1163 / kWh $30

Average Use per Day:

Analyze Usage Change 25.34 kWh / day 14.25 kWh / day $36

Total Electric: $116.00 $46.42 $69.58

I hope it's cheaper this summer LOL

Chad

Central Coast, CA

Oh, Temp at 100 degrees all time

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Just figured out I'm burning approx 310 kwhs per month more in winter is this normal?

...

Oh, Temp at 100 degrees all time

Your 310 kWh in 29 days represents slightly less than half a kilowatt per hour over that period, which is the energy necessary to compensate for a temperature drop of a bit under 1/2 degree per hour in a 400-gallon spa. Seems like a reasonable ballpark figure to me. (Back-of-the-envelope math: 400 gallons of water is about 3,300 pounds. It takes one BTU to heat a pound of water one degree F, and a kilowatt-hour is roughly equivalent to 3,400 BTU. Therefore it takes a tad under one kilowatt-hour of energy to raise the temperature one degree in a 400-gallon tub. 29 days = 696 hours. 310 divided by 696 = 0.45 kilowatts every hour, 24 hours per day, for 29 days, on average.)

The actual energy usage to keep your spa hot depends on the insulation of the tub, the insulation of the cover, and the temperature difference between the spa water and the surrounding heat sink (outside air). The heater will come on much less often in the summer.

Craig

Sunnyvale, California

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Just figured out I'm burning approx 310 kwhs per month more in winter is this normal?

I have a D1 and my bill was 735 Kwh billed this month (29days)

399 Kwh billed previous month (28days) I figure approx $61.00 per month in winter months

BASELINE RATE 315.000000 Kwh @ 0.11556

101-130% OF BASELINE 94.500000 Kwh@ 0.13139

131-200@ OF BASELINE 220.500000 Kwh @0.22708

201-300% OF BASELIINE 3.62069 Kwh @ 0.31555

They charge so much more after you use the Baseline up.

Selected bill:

3/25/2008 Last year:

3/28/2007 Bill Impact

Billing Days: 29 days 28 days $3

Average Cost per kWh: $0.1578 / kWh $0.1163 / kWh $30

Average Use per Day:

Analyze Usage Change 25.34 kWh / day 14.25 kWh / day $36

Total Electric: $116.00 $46.42 $69.58

I hope it's cheaper this summer LOL

Chad

Central Coast, CA

Oh, Temp at 100 degrees all time

My Master Spa has cost me an average of $75 per month in the coldest months of the winter. I have an LSX700 which is approximately 400 gallons. I live in New England where it gets cold in the winter.

Master Spas aren't known for being the most energy efficient Spas, but I have taken some measures to insulate. We pay a flat rate of about $0.15/KWh. Your costs don't seem that high to me, but I am not sure how cold it gets in the winter where you are.

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I just got my January bill. My electricity usage is more than double what it was this time last year (before I got my Infinity tub from Costco). The difference is just under 800 kWh, which I am attributing to hot tub usage. I live in Albuquerque where it doesn't get much below freezing at night this time of year. I keep my tub on economy mode whenever I'm not using it. Could my tub alone really be using almost 800 kWh per month? Should I have a technician look at it?

Just figured out I'm burning approx 310 kwhs per month more in winter is this normal?

I have a D1 and my bill was 735 Kwh billed this month (29days)

399 Kwh billed previous month (28days) I figure approx $61.00 per month in winter months

BASELINE RATE 315.000000 Kwh @ 0.11556

101-130% OF BASELINE 94.500000 Kwh@ 0.13139

131-200@ OF BASELINE 220.500000 Kwh @0.22708

201-300% OF BASELIINE 3.62069 Kwh @ 0.31555

They charge so much more after you use the Baseline up.

Selected bill:

3/25/2008 Last year:

3/28/2007 Bill Impact

Billing Days: 29 days 28 days $3

Average Cost per kWh: $0.1578 / kWh $0.1163 / kWh $30

Average Use per Day:

Analyze Usage Change 25.34 kWh / day 14.25 kWh / day $36

Total Electric: $116.00 $46.42 $69.58

I hope it's cheaper this summer LOL

Chad

Central Coast, CA

Oh, Temp at 100 degrees all time

My Master Spa has cost me an average of $75 per month in the coldest months of the winter. I have an LSX700 which is approximately 400 gallons. I live in New England where it gets cold in the winter.

Master Spas aren't known for being the most energy efficient Spas, but I have taken some measures to insulate. We pay a flat rate of about $0.15/KWh. Your costs don't seem that high to me, but I am not sure how cold it gets in the winter where you are.

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Hi,

I live outside Boston and have had my Gulfstream Spa for 1.5 years. I love it and use it daily. My spa must have terrible insulation because I have it on a separate house meter and the bill is $60 in the summer and $150 plus in the winter. I have always kept it at 102 degrees and I am wondering if turnning it to 90 or less after I use it each night until a few hours before I use it again the next day will lower the energy cost? What dose this do to the chemical balance?

I made the mistake of sinking it into the deck so my access to inside the panels is bad. (I love how it is set up for use though). I am thinking that I will try to get some insulation inside this summer. Can you use that spary in stuff in the can? Thanks for your help! Cheryl

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Hi,

I live outside Boston and have had my Gulfstream Spa for 1.5 years. I love it and use it daily. My spa must have terrible insulation because I have it on a separate house meter and the bill is $60 in the summer and $150 plus in the winter. I have always kept it at 102 degrees and I am wondering if turnning it to 90 or less after I use it each night until a few hours before I use it again the next day will lower the energy cost? What dose this do to the chemical balance?

I made the mistake of sinking it into the deck so my access to inside the panels is bad. (I love how it is set up for use though). I am thinking that I will try to get some insulation inside this summer. Can you use that spary in stuff in the can? Thanks for your help! Cheryl

Do you not have an economy mode? I leave mine on economy until about 20 minutes before I want to get in. It usually has only dropped a couple of degrees. I am anxiious to get my bill though

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Hi,

I live outside Boston and have had my Gulfstream Spa for 1.5 years. I love it and use it daily. My spa must have terrible insulation because I have it on a separate house meter and the bill is $60 in the summer and $150 plus in the winter. I have always kept it at 102 degrees and I am wondering if turnning it to 90 or less after I use it each night until a few hours before I use it again the next day will lower the energy cost? What dose this do to the chemical balance?

I made the mistake of sinking it into the deck so my access to inside the panels is bad. (I love how it is set up for use though). I am thinking that I will try to get some insulation inside this summer. Can you use that spary in stuff in the can? Thanks for your help! Cheryl

I'm a few hours west of you near Albany, NY. If my Hottub cost me $90/mo to heat in the winter I'd have to consider draining it. This is my first winter with a 6yr old thermospa that I re-insulated this summer. The old insulation was some sort of fiber in bags that had mostly settled so it wasn't doing any good. I cut 2" panels of rigid styrofoam [the blue, below grade stuff] & fitted them into all the cabinet walls. The cover is apparently a pretty good insulator as even on 34degree days, if there is frost, it doesn't melt until the sun hits it. 101 degree water a few inches away doesn't warm the cold side.

I keep it at 101degrees 24/7 & use it at least a 1/2 hour every day about 5-6am. My electric usage this winter has been about 150kwh above the usage for the last 5 yrs. [about $24 for me] It has seemed like a colder than usual winter- so the extra furnace time might have an impact too.

I wouldn't insulate the tub itself- insulate the cabinet. Use styrofoam sheets that you can cut with a steak knife- then wrap the thing with the foil bubble wrap before putting the sides back on. This is one kind if you're not familiar with it http://www.radiantguard.com/BubbleInsulation.html . Check with local lumberyards- my Lowe's and Home Depot don't carry it regularly anymore.

Jim

[i'm tempted to buy a meter off ebay for $40 to monitor just the hottub, but I can't come up with a better excuse than 'curiosity', so I've procrastinated on it.]

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Just figured out I'm burning approx 310 kwhs per month more in winter is this normal?

I have a D1 and my bill was 735 Kwh billed this month (29days)

399 Kwh billed previous month (28days) I figure approx $61.00 per month in winter months

BASELINE RATE 315.000000 Kwh @ 0.11556

101-130% OF BASELINE 94.500000 Kwh@ 0.13139

131-200@ OF BASELINE 220.500000 Kwh @0.22708

201-300% OF BASELIINE 3.62069 Kwh @ 0.31555

They charge so much more after you use the Baseline up.

Selected bill:

3/25/2008 Last year:

3/28/2007 Bill Impact

Billing Days: 29 days 28 days $3

Average Cost per kWh: $0.1578 / kWh $0.1163 / kWh $30

Average Use per Day:

Analyze Usage Change 25.34 kWh / day 14.25 kWh / day $36

Total Electric: $116.00 $46.42 $69.58

I hope it's cheaper this summer LOL

Chad

Central Coast, CA

Oh, Temp at 100 degrees all time

My experience with the Masterspa Portsmouth SE is similar - there are two things going on.

First - in my instance - our local utility PG&E has tiered rates that are egregious. In our last bill we got into the 41.5c per KWhr level !!! And we are a 1,660 sq ft house in Oakland, CA with gas appliances.

Secondly, I bought a $20 hand held infra-red thermometer at the auto parts store and its great. Its telling me that my concrete pad is warmer than its surroundings - it ought not to be so warm - so heat is getting from the spa into the concrete pad. The next time that I empty the spa I'll lift it up and put some high density foam under it (once I find a supplier, I know it exists because its available commercially).

Tonight we added 2" expanded polystyrene foam on 3 of the four sides, outside of the spa, so lets see how that helps. We had already filled the spa interior spaces with baggies of foam peanuts.

And the other thing to cut energy consumption is to leave all the air jets off when you are not in the tub. Because during the automatic cycles (min three per day) they add cold water to your tub and cool it down.

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Just figured out I'm burning approx 310 kwhs per month more in winter is this normal?

And you're in California. I hope not southern CA. I'm in NY & I use 1/2 that- and I run the occassional electric heater, and a furnace blower to boot.

First - in my instance - our local utility PG&E has tiered rates that are egregious. In our last bill we got into the 41.5c per KWhr level !!! And we are a 1,660 sq ft house in Oakland, CA with gas appliances.

Secondly, I bought a $20 hand held infra-red thermometer at the auto parts store and its great. Its telling me that my concrete pad is warmer than its surroundings - it ought not to be so warm - so heat is getting from the spa into the concrete pad. The next time that I empty the spa I'll lift it up and put some high density foam under it (once I find a supplier, I know it exists because its available commercially).

First off-- holy crap on the electric rate. I'll stop whining about National Grids $.16 rate.

Good idea on the thermometer. But I'd concentrate on insulating *inside the cabinet*. Dead air space is what really insulates. Whether the air is trapped inside little styrofoam beads, or between fibers made of spun glass, or inside plastic bubbles. . . it is the *dead* air that insulates. Bags of peanuts on the outside will do some good- but they become a breeding place for all kinds of critters, 4 to 100 legged. The styrofoam panels on the outside will work if you then wrap them in plastic to keep the cool breeze from blowing between the cabinet and the insulation.

The bubble wrap foil that I mentioned earlier should make a big difference just lying on the floor inside the cabinet. Then, if your cabinet allows it- staple it up along the top only- and then put the cabinet sides on locking it in place. This will eliminate all infiltration which is your enemy.

This thread has lots of comments and a couple images- I'll take some pictures of mine when the weather is better.

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...amp;#entry41306

And the other thing to cut energy consumption is to leave all the air jets off when you are not in the tub. Because during the automatic cycles (min three per day) they add cold water to your tub and cool it down.

That seems like a no-brainer, but apparently it isn't so obvious. Turning them off will also help keep your ph & TA steady. Insulating the cabinet helps on the cold air through the jets, too. I leave my hottub at 101 and my cabinet is 92 when it is zero degrees outside. I can feel the difference in temp for a second when I turn them on, but I was in a tub last fall thet nearly shot you out of the thing if you didn't start the air before getting in.

Jim

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OK, You guys are great- Being the newbie here I hope it's ok if I ask some dumb questions. I just got my bill for Dec-Jan and it was $172.35 for the hottub only. It was for 881 kWh. The previous months were Dec=703, Nov=595, Oct=472, Sept=330 Aug=316 the lowest reading.

I LOVE it, but REALLY need to fix this problem. I bought a floating 3/4 inch closed cell foam sheet last month and thought it would cut the heat loss out the top, but I don't know if did much good. My Spa came with a 5" cover. We have a couple feet of snow on the ground here and my spa is sunken into my deck so I don't have any easily access to open the cabinet sides. I appreciate all and any ideas. I will plan to get the sides off and some real insutlation in there this summer. Any tips for now? Thanks-Cheryl

Just figured out I'm burning approx 310 kwhs per month more in winter is this normal?

And you're in California. I hope not southern CA. I'm in NY & I use 1/2 that- and I run the occassional electric heater, and a furnace blower to boot.

First - in my instance - our local utility PG&E has tiered rates that are egregious. In our last bill we got into the 41.5c per KWhr level !!! And we are a 1,660 sq ft house in Oakland, CA with gas appliances.

Secondly, I bought a $20 hand held infra-red thermometer at the auto parts store and its great. Its telling me that my concrete pad is warmer than its surroundings - it ought not to be so warm - so heat is getting from the spa into the concrete pad. The next time that I empty the spa I'll lift it up and put some high density foam under it (once I find a supplier, I know it exists because its available commercially).

First off-- holy crap on the electric rate. I'll stop whining about National Grids $.16 rate.

Good idea on the thermometer. But I'd concentrate on insulating *inside the cabinet*. Dead air space is what really insulates. Whether the air is trapped inside little styrofoam beads, or between fibers made of spun glass, or inside plastic bubbles. . . it is the *dead* air that insulates. Bags of peanuts on the outside will do some good- but they become a breeding place for all kinds of critters, 4 to 100 legged. The styrofoam panels on the outside will work if you then wrap them in plastic to keep the cool breeze from blowing between the cabinet and the insulation.

The bubble wrap foil that I mentioned earlier should make a big difference just lying on the floor inside the cabinet. Then, if your cabinet allows it- staple it up along the top only- and then put the cabinet sides on locking it in place. This will eliminate all infiltration which is your enemy.

This thread has lots of comments and a couple images- I'll take some pictures of mine when the weather is better.

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...amp;#entry41306

And the other thing to cut energy consumption is to leave all the air jets off when you are not in the tub. Because during the automatic cycles (min three per day) they add cold water to your tub and cool it down.

That seems like a no-brainer, but apparently it isn't so obvious. Turning them off will also help keep your ph & TA steady. Insulating the cabinet helps on the cold air through the jets, too. I leave my hottub at 101 and my cabinet is 92 when it is zero degrees outside. I can feel the difference in temp for a second when I turn them on, but I was in a tub last fall thet nearly shot you out of the thing if you didn't start the air before getting in.

Jim

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Just figured out I'm burning approx 310 kwhs per month more in winter is this normal?

I have a D1 and my bill was 735 Kwh billed this month (29days)

399 Kwh billed previous month (28days) I figure approx $61.00 per month in winter months

BASELINE RATE 315.000000 Kwh @ 0.11556

101-130% OF BASELINE 94.500000 Kwh@ 0.13139

131-200@ OF BASELINE 220.500000 Kwh @0.22708

201-300% OF BASELIINE 3.62069 Kwh @ 0.31555

They charge so much more after you use the Baseline up.

Selected bill:

3/25/2008 Last year:

3/28/2007 Bill Impact

Billing Days: 29 days 28 days $3

Average Cost per kWh: $0.1578 / kWh $0.1163 / kWh $30

Average Use per Day:

Analyze Usage Change 25.34 kWh / day 14.25 kWh / day $36

Total Electric: $116.00 $46.42 $69.58

I hope it's cheaper this summer LOL

Chad

Central Coast, CA

Oh, Temp at 100 degrees all time

I believe its all about the type of hot tub you have depending on the electric bill... I keep mine between 104-106 (my boyfriend likes 106) and right now my tub is running around $15 a month but in summer around $12.. I have a 8 year old Hotspring Jetsetter (small tub, 3 seater)

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I believe its all about the type of hot tub you have depending on the electric bill... I keep mine between 104-106 (my boyfriend likes 106) and right now my tub is running around $15 a month but in summer around $12.. I have a 8 year old Hotspring Jetsetter (small tub, 3 seater)

I agree, the spa in question more than anything needs the panels taken off and insualtion added. Thats a ThermalPain-in-the-wallet spa.

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I have an 8 seater Arctic Tundra (540 US gallons) and my electricity bill for DEC-JAN went up by $ 50/month compared to last year. I'm happy considering that I also added an adult to the household and that we've had record colds in JAN. We like to keep the tub at 103. Snow does not melt around the cabinet which I think is a good sign. Haven't worked out the increase in consumption or if we had a price increase since last year but if adding 1 adult and 1 hot tub means only a $50/month increase in Hydro bills, I'm a happy camper!

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Urbane,

Isn't the Tundra 640 gallons (I typo I think on your part) anyway I have one as well and it was an especially cold Jan in Edmonton AB as well. I didn't sit down and figure out what the cost might have been but I think it might have been $30 or $40 for myself - usually it averages $20 to $30 a month just as my sales guy said it would. One of the main reasons I didn't go with other brands I have friends that pay on average $100 month factored over the year and over 10 to 15 years that energy cost can get you a lot of extra hot tub at the time of purchase if you take it into consideration (which i did) :)

Cheers

Calvin

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Urbane,

Isn't the Tundra 640 gallons (I typo I think on your part) anyway I have one as well and it was an especially cold Jan in Edmonton AB as well. I didn't sit down and figure out what the cost might have been but I think it might have been $30 or $40 for myself - usually it averages $20 to $30 a month just as my sales guy said it would. One of the main reasons I didn't go with other brands I have friends that pay on average $100 month factored over the year and over 10 to 15 years that energy cost can get you a lot of extra hot tub at the time of purchase if you take it into consideration (which i did) :)

Cheers

Calvin

30 bucks a month versus 50 bucks a month average cost. 240 bucks per year times 15 years 3600 dollars savings for the life of the tub. 30 bucks a month versus 60 bucks per month, 5400 dollars over the life of the tub.

So buy a 3000 dollar tub that takes an average of 60 bucks a month to keep warm. And compare it to a 8000 dollar tub that takes 30 bucks a month to stay warm and? Yep the better value is the higher priced tub. Not considering the extra maintenence cost, setup cost, and do it yourself cost. And I don't know about anybody else but I figure my worth at about 50 bucks an hour times 2 because I could be relaxing (worth at least 50 bucks an hour) but instead I am under the hood of my tub working (50 bucks an hour is cheap here)

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let's see roger... your break even point is 20 years!!!!!! Hardly a bargain.

Ummmm do the math again. Just with power consumption alone added you will have spent 8400 for one 3000 dollar tub, you'll need 2 to make 15 years, maybe 3, that's 11,400 on the low end and 14,400 on the high end. While the 8000 dollar tub cost 11,600. Now if you calculate the down time at 75 bucks an hour and the other headaches that go with owning a lesser quality tub, soft cost we call these. Can't really put a number to them because it is very variable but denying they don't exsist in more frequency then a higher quality tub would stupid. You'll find that over a 15 year period you will spend more for the 3000 dollar tub. Count delivery and set up as an extra cost for the lower quality unit. Sorry Soaker I don't see the way your figureing your math?? Explain it to me.

The point is you may only buy the one 3000 dollar tub because you've had a bad experience. And in it's life span you will pay allot more than 3000 bucks. This all assumes 60 bucks a month I've heard storys of 80-100 or more.

I do understand not everyone can afford an 8000 dollar tub. Great, buy a Costco tub, but go in it with your eyes open, it is what it is. Not an 8000 dollar tub and not any less expensive over the long run.. And not what hot tub ownership is like for everyone.

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I recently bought a $20 radiant thermometer at the local auto parts store - point and shoot with laser sighting - it works great.

Now that I added 1.5" of rigid foam under the tub the concrete pad is 5 degrees cooler, so I have reduced the heat loss via the ground to some extent.

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Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I just completed a year-long electrical use survey on a spa in one of my homes, a 2008 Hotsprings Sovereign. Here are the averaged monthly results (desert climate at 68F average annual temp):

297 kWhrs/month

at a nominal rate of $0.20/kW

= $60/month

The spa is used approximately 30-45 minutes three times per week at 100F with default filtering.

Note: I used a Efergy Elite home monitor setup for 208-220VAC. I also have a P3 Kill-A-Watt monitor hooked up to a new oil space heater and I was surprised that it averages 0.90kW/hr (we use it about 4 hours a night at $24 per month). I just re-read the owner's manual and I set it up at a lower capacity...now it averages 0.60kW/hr.

I guess there is no way in getting around the laws of thermal dynamic/physics/et al.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5...atalogId=10053)

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I have been reading this thread with considerable interest given my shocking electric bill. (pun intended?)

I have a 15 year old 220V Marquis model 41K8. I am told it has good insulation and it appears to be in good shape. I live on the coast of Northern CA where the average temperature is about 50 degrees. The hot tub is on a fully enclosed deck area with walls and metal roof over it. I have a good spa cover and also use a floating closed cell insulation layer.

In Oct. 2009 I replaced the pump and spa pack when the original failed.

The hot tub is set to 102 deg.

My monthly electric bills show a 300Kwh increase over last year for the months of Dec. and Jan. Using the tiered PG&E billing system, these Kwh are billed at an average whopping $0.44 per Kwh instead of the baseline rate of $0.11.

My questions are similar to others here.

1) Is something wrong here? (other than with PG&E's onerous pricing system)

2) What can I do?

3) Would a much smaller hot tub save money in the long run?

Thanks in advance!

Bill

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I just completed a year-long electrical use survey on a spa in one of my homes, a 2008 Hotsprings Sovereign. Here are the averaged monthly results (desert climate at 68F average annual temp):

297 kWhrs/month

at a nominal rate of $0.20/kW

= $60/month

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The difference between my '08 HS Sovereign and my '09 Catalina Quebec are somewhat significant (my Catalina uses even less energy and is by far our family's first choice all-around). Regardless, both are great spas and seem to use an expected amount of energy.

Also, I live in the high desert with lows in the mid '20s and summer highs in the 90-100F range (averages of 56F [winter] and 96F [summer])...this could be a measurable difference between our situations.

Note: I have used my in-line Watt meter all around the house now and I know what all of the big energy user pigs are...and I found out my LED foot-well lights (we have several throughout one of our homes) each use $0.75 per year to operate! :D

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Great Topic.

The real question to figuring out cost is how many Kw hours your tub uses per month. Hotspring states that with my climate, I should use about 195 KW hours per month. Sure there are variables.

In nor cal, our utility, PG&E has a tiered system for electric rates. So ya, your tub gets real expensive if you go into teir 3 and 4- even if you have an efficient hot tub.

Based on Hotspring data and my electricity usage/rates. My 96 HS prodigy should run about $25-40 per month. (That would be cut in half if I never went over baseline usage.) Time will tell if this is accurate.

But here's one for you if you have the data:

Avg. KW hours per month for tub: ____

Type of Tub (make model year):____

Location or Avg. Temp.:___

It'd be interesting to see how much power our tubs are using as opposed to what they cost to run per month.

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