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mike p

My First Power Bill After Hot Tub!

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So I Have anxiously been waiting for my first power bill to come. I got my hot tub in early November right when my billing cylce began and I just got the bill for 1 full month of Electricity since owning my Hot Tub.

My Last three electric Bills were as follows:

September: $236 (AC was cranked)

October: $137

November: $95

Then December came and it was $177!!!!

That's a pretty big difference... I keep it on economy mode (101) and turn on to STD just about every night to I can soak for 20-30 minutes or so then it goes back to economy. I did have Christmas Lights on but that could only have been maybe $5-$10.

Any help???

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The blower to run gas heat (if it is forced), uses alot of electricity especially if it is cycling on and off. If you can pull out your electric bill from a year ago it is the best way to compare and find an average kwh change. I have figured my tub is approx. between 13kw-15kw a day to run. Our electricity is expensive here in the northeast, so i guess it depends on your local rates. unfortuantely, there is a price to pay for the enjoyment of the spa, but i would not be without it. :)

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The blower to run gas heat (if it is forced), uses alot of electricity especially if it is cycling on and off. If you can pull out your electric bill from a year ago it is the best way to compare and find an average kwh change. I have figured my tub is approx. between 13kw-15kw a day to run. Our electricity is expensive here in the northeast, so i guess it depends on your local rates. unfortuantely, there is a price to pay for the enjoyment of the spa, but i would not be without it. :)

Well I did just move here about 11 months ago so don't have a comparison. But in SC in a similar sized house my power bill for November-December was 79.

Should I keep it on STD mode?

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Well I did just move here about 11 months ago so don't have a comparison. But in SC in a similar sized house my power bill for November-December was 79.

Should I keep it on STD mode?

It all comes down to the rates in your local area, your rates could likely be higher. I am not familiar with the standard/economy mode. Mine has a circulation pump that runs 24/7. It does not turn on the main pumps very often. I would say that if economy mode uses your main pumps less, you would save electricity. Just make sure your tub water is staying ok. Otherwise you will probably spend more in chemicals than electricty trying to rebalance.

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I have sold these things for 21 years, and the first month is always the highest. You are home more, you have a tendancy to open the cover more often than just getting in the spa, you use more jets and more blower as you experiment with the different settings, and you tend to jack the temp up and down a bit.

Also, being home more, longer nights, Christmas lights, all these changes add up.

But relax, if you bought a well-insulated tub the part of the bill that it contributes should drop.

Oops - see below....

B)

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Mike,

You don't say what kind of spa but due to the issue I'm guessing its a basic thermopane. I wouldn't wait for another bill. I would suggest you take one of the sides off and I think you're going to see that there is some definite opportunity to improve the issue by adding insulation in the corners and sides so you can reduce some of that air transfer.

So I Have anxiously been waiting for my first power bill to come. I got my hot tub in early November right when my billing cylce began and I just got the bill for 1 full month of Electricity since owning my Hot Tub.

My Last three electric Bills were as follows:

September: $236 (AC was cranked)

October: $137

November: $95

Then December came and it was $177!!!!

That's a pretty big difference... I keep it on economy mode (101) and turn on to STD just about every night to I can soak for 20-30 minutes or so then it goes back to economy. I did have Christmas Lights on but that could only have been maybe $5-$10.

Any help???

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Mike - I live in northern KY and my gas & electric bill jumped a similar amount as yours. We've has some nights get down to 20 or so this billing period, I would guess your temps have been a little milder, but definately considerlably cooler than prior month. I also drained & refilled earlier this month so I figured my electric would be increased a little more due to reheating - I think it took around 7 hours to bring tub up to the 102 set point (375 gallons). Anyway, compared to this same period last year I used 11.5 KWH more per day. So for 30 days that would be an increase of 345 KWH to run my tub. At 6.3 cents per KWH that's $21.74 for tub usage - not bad considering I did a refill.

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I didn't mention it, but I didn't have a hot tub last year so the comparison in electical usage to last year should be pretty good. Also it's been 3 degrees cooler this billing period compared to last years, so furnace fan would have run more this year.

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What type of spa is it? How many pumps and what is the actual power of the pumps? Are the pumps 1 or 2 speed? How many amps are required to run it or what size breaker is required? We are just about to purchase a spa and are also interested in the power usage.

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What type of spa is it? How many pumps and what is the actual power of the pumps? Are the pumps 1 or 2 speed? How many amps are required to run it or what size breaker is required? We are just about to purchase a spa and are also interested in the power usage.

Its a costco Tub made by Keys Backyard its the Discover Ecstasy 6 person tub.

It has 1 pump speed and the pump I think is about 5 or 6 HP. I have a 50 amp breaker which i think is pretty standard.

It is a pretty empty shell inside the cabinents so I think I will insulate sometime this month.

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A 6 HP pump would require over twenty amps at normal load. That is about 4500 watts at 220 volts - compare it to three 1500 watt room heaters running full blast or 75 light bulbs of 60 watts each.

If things are not designed well, or if a dirty filter puts more load on it, or if you can shuttle a divert valve to flow through a single large jet - in other words as the load on the motor goes up - the amps will spike.

That will draw a lot of amps - and that equals a lot of money. The good news in this regard is that there isn't a 6 HP pump available in the pool and spa industry, so you may not really have the size you were told - or the size it is even marked.

Also - I'm sorry to say that brand of tub is not well insulated, so I would agree with your statement above that you might want to investigate supplimenting the insulation.

B)

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Its a costco Tub made by Keys Backyard its the Discover Ecstasy 6 person tub.

It has 1 pump speed and the pump I think is about 5 or 6 HP. I have a 50 amp breaker which i think is pretty standard.

It is a pretty empty shell inside the cabinents so I think I will insulate sometime this month.

That is not really a 5 HP pump. That's the Brake HP. In terms of real HP (not the deceptive bhp rating they give to make you think you're getting more than you are) that is about a 2.5 HP pump, or so.

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Its a costco Tub made by Keys Backyard its the Discover Ecstasy 6 person tub.

It has 1 pump speed and the pump I think is about 5 or 6 HP. I have a 50 amp breaker which i think is pretty standard.

It is a pretty empty shell inside the cabinents so I think I will insulate sometime this month.

That is not really a 5 HP pump. That's the Brake HP. In terms of real HP (not the deceptive bhp rating they give to make you think you're getting more than you are) that is about a 2.5 HP pump, or so.

Why don't you share with us the spec sheet if your so sure of your statement! We know that these spas are alot less expensive alternative to a dealer spa thus giving consumers a better option price wise then a dealer inflated spa of simmilar quality. With that said, it is a 5 H.P. pump and that is a fact. The same fact the same spa at a dealer would cost two thousand dollars more for a like spa is a fact! Otherwise these spas would not be sold through Costco if the dealer spas where priced the same for simmilar spas with simmilar options.

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Why don't you share with us the spec sheet if your so sure of your statement! We know that these spas are alot less expensive alternative to a dealer spa thus giving consumers a better option price wise then a dealer inflated spa of simmilar quality. With that said, it is a 5 H.P. pump and that is a fact. The same fact the same spa at a dealer would cost two thousand dollars more for a like spa is a fact! Otherwise these spas would not be sold through Costco if the dealer spas where priced the same for simmilar spas with simmilar options.

I am 100.0% sure that is the Brake HP, not continuous HP (aka "real" HP). Its really somewhere between 2.5 and 3.0 in "real" HP but if you want to call it a "5.0" pump just refer to it as 5.0 BHP so its at least truthful. Its a shame to ever list it as HP when the number is BHP. BTW, I think its a 6.0 BHP pump not 5.0 BHP.

I'm sorry that you don't like it but it is true. Most all the Costco spas use the deceptive BHP rating. I just looked on their site and they have one that says it has "2-6.0 HP GE pumps". LOL, you'd probably need 80A if that was their real HP but it isn't, that's BHP. Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger revealing reality. Many people have been fooled by that so don't get upset with yourself if all along you thought you had a true 5.0 HP pump.

Mike,

Back to your original issue. Your issue with energy use it tied to the fact that those spas are poorly insulated. Take off one of the sides and you'll see for yourself as have many owners who've come here after their purchase with that type spa and that exact issue. Then go to Lowes or Home Depot and see what they have to offer. You want to properly insulate the side and corners in general plus where they meet the shell. If you can eliminate the air flow issue you'll keep more heat in and should see an improvement.

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Why don't you share with us the spec sheet if your so sure of your statement! We know that these spas are alot less expensive alternative to a dealer spa thus giving consumers a better option price wise then a dealer inflated spa of simmilar quality. With that said, it is a 5 H.P. pump and that is a fact. The same fact the same spa at a dealer would cost two thousand dollars more for a like spa is a fact! Otherwise these spas would not be sold through Costco if the dealer spas where priced the same for simmilar spas with simmilar options.

I am 100.0% sure that is the Brake HP, not continuous HP (aka "real" HP). Its really somewhere between 2.5 and 3.0 in "real" HP but if you want to call it a "5.0" pump just refer to it as 5.0 BHP so its at least truthful. Its a shame to ever list it as HP when the number is BHP. BTW, I think its a 6.0 BHP pump not 5.0 BHP.

I'm sorry that you don't like it but it is true. Most all the Costco spas use the deceptive BHP rating. I just looked on their site and they have one that says it has "2-6.0 HP GE pumps". LOL, you'd probably need 80A if that was their real HP but it isn't, that's BHP. Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger revealing reality. Many people have been fooled by that so don't get upset with yourself if all along you thought you had a true 5.0 HP pump.

Mike,

Back to your original issue. Your issue with energy use it tied to the fact that those spas are poorly insulated. Take off one of the sides and you'll see for yourself as have many owners who've come here after their purchase with that type spa and that exact issue. Then go to Lowes or Home Depot and see what they have to offer. You want to properly insulate the side and corners in general plus where they meet the shell. If you can eliminate the air flow issue you'll keep more heat in and should see an improvement.

What does all that mean to the end user? Nothing! just another way to bash a good value spa is all. People couldn't tell what horsepower is in most spas except on a spec sheet.

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What does all that mean to the end user? Nothing! just another way to bash a good value spa is all.

The spa owner was noting high energy costs. He later stated he had a 5hp pump which would seem high for a spa and may lead him to believe that was part of his increased energy bill. I was letting him know he had a typically sized pump so that was not part of the issue but rather it was because his spa was just not insulated as many owners of that brand have come here to get help on.

In other words I was responding to a point he made in his post. You decided to chime in and for some reason arbitrarily stated I was wrong simply because you weren't happy with the truth.

People couldn't tell what horsepower is in most spas except on a spec sheet.

...and in the case of his spa (and yours possibly) the spec sheet he reads is what is causing the confusion because it is designed to confuse you into thinking you got more than you really did.

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Its a costco Tub made by Keys Backyard its the Discover Ecstasy 6 person tub.

It has 1 pump speed and the pump I think is about 5 or 6 HP. I have a 50 amp breaker which i think is pretty standard.

It is a pretty empty shell inside the cabinents so I think I will insulate sometime this month.

That is not really a 5 HP pump. That's the Brake HP. In terms of real HP (not the deceptive bhp rating they give to make you think you're getting more than you are) that is about a 2.5 HP pump, or so.

Why don't you share with us the spec sheet if your so sure of your statement! We know that these spas are alot less expensive alternative to a dealer spa thus giving consumers a better option price wise then a dealer inflated spa of simmilar quality. With that said, it is a 5 H.P. pump and that is a fact. The same fact the same spa at a dealer would cost two thousand dollars more for a like spa is a fact! Otherwise these spas would not be sold through Costco if the dealer spas where priced the same for simmilar spas with simmilar options.

soakerman,

Why such a apologist for Costco ? You make some bold statements about what a dealer would charge for a similar spa, other than your rhetoric do you have anything to prove these cliams. We as dealers can certainly offer spas of similar quality for a similar price. The reason many of choose not to, is that the product is not something we want to live with on a daily basis knowing the long term and short term problems these spas bring. Over this summer we did some off site events and I wanted to really offer some "deals". I sold 44 jet spas with 2 *5* hp pumps water fall, stereo, lift, steps, led lighting and unlike Costco delivery to your backyard with chems $4995.00. I stopped selling them and not because they did not sell, they sold well. But no matter what you want to believe or what I hoped for they ARE NOT the equal of A Sundance, a Hot Springs, A Marquis, A Jacuzzi. etc. Some people live life with blinders on and want to think you can buy a car like a Hyundai and it is the same as the Lexus because a commercial says so, no matter what the ad says or they hope for it is not the same. There is no way that products of equal value can be produced for thousands less. The market economy of the world does not allow for it. some products are good values and may hold enough value for a person to choose the lower priced but there will be compromises in the process.

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Yeah Soakerman, I'm not a dealer. I'm just a consumer looking to buy a hot tub soon. But I have no delusions that the tubs you're buying at Walmart, Costco or other big box stores are equal quality to HS, D1, Marquis, Jacuzzi, Caldera, Sundance, etc. You definitely get what you pay for. Costco could probably (assuming one of the top tub manufacturers would agree to it) sell a top-notch tub less than a small dealer could, but not for thousands less -- maybe hundreds. Costco obviously chooses to sell a much lower cost tub, but I haven't heard anyone argue that it's the same as the top tubs. Even the HS designed tub Costco was selling for a while had significantly fewer features than HS's regular tubs. That's not to say someone couldn't buy a Costco tub and enjoy a nice soak. But if you're looking for top therapy, top quality, top service and top energy efficiency, almost all of the people I've chatted with on this site and others would say go to the top manufacturers.

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A 6 HP pump would require over twenty amps at normal load. That is about 4500 watts at 220 volts - compare it to three 1500 watt room heaters running full blast or 75 light bulbs of 60 watts each.

If things are not designed well, or if a dirty filter puts more load on it, or if you can shuttle a divert valve to flow through a single large jet - in other words as the load on the motor goes up - the amps will spike.

That will draw a lot of amps - and that equals a lot of money. The good news in this regard is that there isn't a 6 HP pump available in the pool and spa industry, so you may not really have the size you were told - or the size it is even marked.

Also - I'm sorry to say that brand of tub is not well insulated, so I would agree with your statement above that you might want to investigate supplimenting the insulation.

B)

I bought some insulation today and insulated the tub I really think it will make a difference, i used pink insulation i found at home depot for $10 for a roll of 40 feet. Its rated R-13 and i put it in insulation towards the tub (brown paper toward cabinent). Left out the insulation near the pump and electric.

I think this will hopefully help me dilemna...i think the motor HP is either 4.5 or 5 maybe not 6...the manual is in the files.

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Forget what the manual might say, that's quite probably just more marketing babble. LOOK directly at the motor on the pump, and read the rating plate. It should look something like below. Come back and post what the AMP rating is. From there, it's simple to calculate horsepower. Amps x volts = watts. 1 horsepower is equivalent to 746 watts.. By the way, all this is going to tell is the maximun amount of hp the motor is CAPABLE of producing. The ONLY way to know HOW MUCH hp the motor is ACTUALLY exerting is to put an amp meter on the motor while it's operating (more on this later)

motor-ID.gif

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Yeah Soakerman, I'm not a dealer. I'm just a consumer looking to buy a hot tub soon. But I have no delusions that the tubs you're buying at Walmart, Costco or other big box stores are equal quality to HS, D1, Marquis, Jacuzzi, Caldera, Sundance, etc. You definitely get what you pay for. Costco could probably (assuming one of the top tub manufacturers would agree to it) sell a top-notch tub less than a small dealer could, but not for thousands less -- maybe hundreds. Costco obviously chooses to sell a much lower cost tub, but I haven't heard anyone argue that it's the same as the top tubs. Even the HS designed tub Costco was selling for a while had significantly fewer features than HS's regular tubs. That's not to say someone couldn't buy a Costco tub and enjoy a nice soak. But if you're looking for top therapy, top quality, top service and top energy efficiency, almost all of the people I've chatted with on this site and others would say go to the top manufacturers.

These people "others" all paid for a top dollar spa and would never say anything less. Costco can and does sell spas for less all the time day in and day out. case in point is the Legend from Hyrdrospa sold through Costco is a factual four thousand dollars less then the Clearwater spa dealer right accross the street with the exact components down to the model number and the exact options again the same manufacturere and line. Thats the facts. As to your H.S. sovereign/ highlife, you can directly compare it to a similar spa sold through H.S. dealer and se that it is two thousand less then their comparable spa. unless you can name a spa that sells for what costco sells with the same options, same controlls ect. then yours is just a opinion.

Mike..... I would also look at the Reflective foil wrap as that seems to be a great fix to help with insulation. Let us know if you see any differance in your energy usage.

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Yeah Soakerman, I'm not a dealer. I'm just a consumer looking to buy a hot tub soon. But I have no delusions that the tubs you're buying at Walmart, Costco or other big box stores are equal quality to HS, D1, Marquis, Jacuzzi, Caldera, Sundance, etc. You definitely get what you pay for. Costco could probably (assuming one of the top tub manufacturers would agree to it) sell a top-notch tub less than a small dealer could, but not for thousands less -- maybe hundreds. Costco obviously chooses to sell a much lower cost tub, but I haven't heard anyone argue that it's the same as the top tubs. Even the HS designed tub Costco was selling for a while had significantly fewer features than HS's regular tubs. That's not to say someone couldn't buy a Costco tub and enjoy a nice soak. But if you're looking for top therapy, top quality, top service and top energy efficiency, almost all of the people I've chatted with on this site and others would say go to the top manufacturers.

These people "others" all paid for a top dollar spa and would never say anything less. Costco can and does sell spas for less all the time day in and day out. case in point is the Legend from Hyrdrospa sold through Costco is a factual four thousand dollars less then the Clearwater spa dealer right accross the street with the exact components down to the model number and the exact options again the same manufacturere and line. Thats the facts. As to your H.S. sovereign/ highlife, you can directly compare it to a similar spa sold through H.S. dealer and se that it is two thousand less then their comparable spa. unless you can name a spa that sells for what costco sells with the same options, same controlls ect. then yours is just a opinion.

Mike..... I would also look at the Reflective foil wrap as that seems to be a great fix to help with insulation. Let us know if you see any differance in your energy usage.

Hey Soakerman,

You seem to like spew a lot of undocumented personal opinions but you do not have much fact or anything of substance to back them up. I asked you a direct question and you did not respond but instead you attack the above poster. So whats up do you have anything to say or show other than you opinion which you are most certainly entitled to but it is what it, your thoughts on what you think things are or what they should be. When someone is so rigid in thier defense of something like you seem to be with Costco spas. it make me and I am sure others wonder what is your real agenda ?

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Its a costco Tub made by Keys Backyard its the Discover Ecstasy 6 person tub.

It has 1 pump speed and the pump I think is about 5 or 6 HP. I have a 50 amp breaker which i think is pretty standard.

It is a pretty empty shell inside the cabinents so I think I will insulate sometime this month.

That is not really a 5 HP pump. That's the Brake HP. In terms of real HP (not the deceptive bhp rating they give to make you think you're getting more than you are) that is about a 2.5 HP pump, or so.

Why don't you share with us the spec sheet if your so sure of your statement! We know that these spas are alot less expensive alternative to a dealer spa thus giving consumers a better option price wise then a dealer inflated spa of simmilar quality. With that said, it is a 5 H.P. pump and that is a fact. The same fact the same spa at a dealer would cost two thousand dollars more for a like spa is a fact! Otherwise these spas would not be sold through Costco if the dealer spas where priced the same for simmilar spas with simmilar options.

soakerman,

Why such a apologist for Costco ? You make some bold statements about what a dealer would charge for a similar spa, other than your rhetoric do you have anything to prove these cliams. We as dealers can certainly offer spas of similar quality for a similar price. The reason many of choose not to, is that the product is not something we want to live with on a daily basis knowing the long term and short term problems these spas bring. Over this summer we did some off site events and I wanted to really offer some "deals". I sold 44 jet spas with 2 *5* hp pumps water fall, stereo, lift, steps, led lighting and unlike Costco delivery to your backyard with chems $4995.00. I stopped selling them and not because they did not sell, they sold well. But no matter what you want to believe or what I hoped for they ARE NOT the equal of A Sundance, a Hot Springs, A Marquis, A Jacuzzi. etc. Some people live life with blinders on and want to think you can buy a car like a Hyundai and it is the same as the Lexus because a commercial says so, no matter what the ad says or they hope for it is not the same. There is no way that products of equal value can be produced for thousands less. The market economy of the world does not allow for it. some products are good values and may hold enough value for a person to choose the lower priced but there will be compromises in the process.

There you go Soakerman in case you may have missed it. So please tell me with real world and solid facts as to what we can and cannot sell.

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Yeah Soakerman, I'm not a dealer. I'm just a consumer looking to buy a hot tub soon. But I have no delusions that the tubs you're buying at Walmart, Costco or other big box stores are equal quality to HS, D1, Marquis, Jacuzzi, Caldera, Sundance, etc. You definitely get what you pay for. Costco could probably (assuming one of the top tub manufacturers would agree to it) sell a top-notch tub less than a small dealer could, but not for thousands less -- maybe hundreds. Costco obviously chooses to sell a much lower cost tub, but I haven't heard anyone argue that it's the same as the top tubs. Even the HS designed tub Costco was selling for a while had significantly fewer features than HS's regular tubs. That's not to say someone couldn't buy a Costco tub and enjoy a nice soak. But if you're looking for top therapy, top quality, top service and top energy efficiency, almost all of the people I've chatted with on this site and others would say go to the top manufacturers.

Mike..... I would also look at the Reflective foil wrap as that seems to be a great fix to help with insulation. Let us know if you see any differance in your energy usage.

Interesting advice there Soakerman Tell me when have you ever read about a HS, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Marquis, etc where on a new tub the owners are running to a store to try and insulate thier spa. In your own words you say;

"I would also look at the Reflective foil wrap as that seems to be a great fix to help with insulation"

This seems to imply that this is an ongoing issue with these spas and if that's correct than how you can pretend they are the equal of the brands I mentioned. Again nothing wrong with a Costco spa but just understand what you are getting .

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Costco can and does sell spas for less all the time day in and day out.

Costco generally sells low quality, poorly insulated spas. They are not a bad value as they sell them cheap but that's appropriate because they are a cheaply made product. In other words, they sell for about what they are worth. You don't save money, you just spend less.

You get no service and the warranty isn't worth much more than the paper its written on so you better be prepared to diagnose and possibly fix it yourself but some will say they spent less and are prepared to be their own spa tech (being a DIYer is almost a must for Costco buyers). Step one as we all know, open it up and insulate it, don't wait for the first couple energy bills because they always disappoint.

Those who go in with their eyes open typically aren't too disappointed. Some, like Soakerman argue that there is a conspiracy going on but in reality they either have a need to blindly justify their purchase or have a Costco card that says "employee".

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