zoetman

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About zoetman

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  1. I ended up getting a 14X 7 endlesss pool. I had it built up so the water is 53-55 inches. The installer was amazing - he was able to make a slope out of cement so I could get that 2" of extra water depth in one end. It has 4 jets and, of course, the "fastlane" which makes you feel like you are swimming in a soft river current and it keeps you in place. I heat it up to 92. It is dreamy. So glad I did it. The installer is Aquatic Horizons from NewPort Richey, FL. He travels all over the country instlling pools. Best thing I ever did for myself.
  2. Does anyone have any experience with swim tethers or harnasses? This is an option I could consider but I'm hearing that they are uncomfortable to use as opposed to swimming against a current in a swim spa. thank you.
  3. thanksFootie - I will consider jets; however I'm going to try to find a reasonable "propeller" or "paddle wheel" swim spa first. Does your son swim against the jets?
  4. thank you Newbie. I will check them out. I've heard that swimming against jets as opposed to paddle wheel/propeller is "turbulent" which would not be good for me - I am pretty disabled in a lot of places, with weak arms and shoulders from a badly healed shoulder operation.
  5. I have been looking at deep water therapy pools. I am disabled and getting out to the pool in our area is just getting too difficult. Does anyone have experience or knowledge of the: l. Endless Pool fiberglass swimspa - 8 X 18 they come in depths of 4.5', 5' and 5.5' (I believe). Looks like about $30,000 including everything. 2. EZ Therapy pool - 7 X 12 this is much cheaper - at about $8,000 including everything. One would use a swim harness to swim. These are for indoor use. Any info or alternatives would be great. I want to be able to do upright water aerobics in about 4.5-5' of water as well as have a swimming alternative. (I'm not sure what it is like to swim with a tether). Thanks in advance!
  6. what is the proper test kit for chlorine - the K2005? not the K2006 which is for bromine. Am I correct. If so, where is the least expensive place to get the K2005. thanks
  7. Actually, it was me. In a bromine system MPS is generally used as an oxidizer but is wrongly referred to as a shock. Chlorine is just as effective and quite a bit less expensive for this purpose with bromine. MPS has no advantages in a bromine system since either MPS or chlorine will cause the bromine levels to rise and this is what acually 'shocks' the water. In either case you must wait for the levels to drop below 10 ppm before entering the spa so the main advantage to MPS in a chlorine system (only a short wait after shocking) is non existant in a bromine system because the chemistry involved is different. With an indoor chlorine system MPS can be usedful in preventing the formation of combined chlorine and can help in maintaining better indoor air quality! thanks waterbear!
  8. thanks Richard. I think I'll stick with the dry acid. I also had a question. You( or someone) mentions that you don't necessarily need MPS with a bromine system. What about with a chlorine system (dichlor). My spa is indoors. Thanks Beverly
  9. A question, are you using chlorine, bromine, or biguanide as a sanitizer? These are the only three EPA approved sanitizers. Get a good test kit for testing your water, that is the first step. Strips just won't do the job! If you are using chlorine you want to get a Taylor K-2006. If you are using bromine you want a Taylor K-2106. There are no alternatives to chemicals. Baking soda is used to increase the total alkalinity of your water (one of the water parameters that needs to be monitored and adjusted from time to time). Baking soda is just the commom name for sodium bicarbonate, which is sold by pool and spa supply stores and dealers as "total alkalinity increaser" for a high price. It's just baking soday. Perhaps you are referring to what is sometimes callled the BBB method (bleach, borax and baking soda). Bleach is sodium hypochlorite. Same thing as liquid chlorine but about half the strength. It is one of the possible choices to use as a chlorine source if you are using chlorine. If you are using bromine it is an excellent choice for a shock. Borax is used to increase pH without increasing total alkalinity (The chemical usually sold for increasing pH is sodium carbonate (aka washing soda, sal soda, or soda ash) It will increase pH but it also increases total alkalinity, which is not always what is needed. If you are going to use chlorine you need a chlorine source such as bleach, liquid chlorine, or dichlor. The first two are unstabilized chlorine and that actually has advanteages in hot tubs but you migh need to add a very small amount of stabilizer (cyanuric acid) to the water if the tub is exposed to sunlight. Dichlor is stabilized chlorine but it causes stabilizer levels to keep rising and that causes the chlorine to become a less effective santizer when the stabilizer level gets too high. This could allow the bacteria that causes "hot tub itch" to grow in your water. However, if there is no stabilizer in the water at all it's hard to keep a free chlorine level, especially if the tub is exposed to sunlight. If you are using bromine you need sodium bromide, bromine tablets in a floater (optional), and an oxidizer to convert the sodium bromide into active bromine sanitizer. The most commom oxidizers are bleach, liquid chlorine, dichlor, and MPS (postasium monopersulfate or non chlorine shock). My preference is for bleach. In either case you will need baking soda to raise the total alkalinity when it is too low, dry acid (sodium bisulfate which is usually called pH decreaser or pH down or pH minus or a similar name) to lower the pH when it is too high, Borax (from the laundry aisle of the grocery store) to raise pH when it is too low. This is also sold in pool and spa supply stores as a "water enhancers and agae preventative" when used in a 30-50 ppm concentration for a lot of money! I would recommend staying away from the pH increasers that are usually sold. They are sodium carbonate (see above). They will raise your pH AND your total alkalinity together and often your pH is the only thing that needs to be adjusted! Finally, you might need calcium chloride to increase the hardness of your water if your calcium level is below about 125 ppm for acryic spas, 150 ppm for fiberglass, or 200 ppm for plaster. I know it sounds confusing but it really isn't. The first step is to decide if you are going to use chlorine or bromine. Chlorine is a bit simpler but requires daily checks. Bromine is a bit less maintenance once you get it adjusted but bromine is a known sensitizer that some people are allergic to and it has a decided chemical smell. I do not recommend biguanide (SoftSoak, Revacil, BaquaSpa, etc.). It is very expensive and has more disadvantages than advantages IMHO. It will attack certain plastics that are used in spas and it has a tendancy to develop algae, white water mold, and pink slime. It will also require more frequent filter cleanings and replacement! It's main advantage is for people who have a true chemical sensitivity to both bromine and chlorine. These are the only three EPA aproved sanitizers. All other products (ozone, ionizers and other copper/silver systems, UV, enzymes, etc. are supplimentary sanitizers that must be used in conjuction with (usually) chlorine for properly sanitized water. They are NOT stand alone systems. Hope this is helpful. If you read through the forum you will find a lot of information on the proper use of chlorine, bromine and biguanide. Where do I obtain the dry acid (sodium bisulfate) you mention? I got Ph decreaser from the spa store but is there a less expensive source? Also, I am using Chlorine, baking soda and/or Borax, Ph decreaser and MPS. It seems like you are saying here that I don't really need the MPS. Is that true? My interest is not getting overcharged at the spa store but also, I want the least possible chemical smell to my spa possible. thanks, zoetman Dry acid is Sodium Bisulfate. There is no 'subtitute' for it. You will need to get it at the pool/spa supply. You can also find it at such places as Home Depot, Ace Hardware, and Lowes in the pool Dept. I do not recommend Muriatic acid for spas (although people do use it) since you need such a small amount and I really wouldn't want to try to measure out Muriatic Acid by the teaspoon! Dry acid is much safer in the small amounts that are needed in most spas. MPS is not necessary but can be useful under certain circumstances. I personally don't usually recommend it for outdoor chlorine spas if shocking is done properly and regularly. It offers NO avantages over chlorine as an oxidizer in Bromine systems and is much more expensive. Once again you will need to purchase this at the pool/spa supply. MPS was develped by DuPont under the name of Oxone. They hold the patents on it and they still sell it under that brand name. It doesn't matter who you buy it from or what the brand is, you are getting Oxone! I know you say you don't need MPS with a bromine system. What about with a chlorine system (Dichlor)?
  10. thanks Richard. How much muriatic acid would I start with - like a tablespoon diluted? Beverly
  11. where do I obtain dry acid (sodium bisulfate)? Rather than pay the spa store for their overpriced version. Also, as I am new at this, please tell me if I'm doing this right: Okay, I'm using chlorine, borax/baking soda to increase Ph/alklinity as needed. Plus I'm using PH decreaser right now. Plus MPS. I don't understand what the MPS is for? I know it's a sanitizer but isn't that what the chlorine is for? Please clarify. Thanks a bunch. If MPS is needed, is there any generic source? thanks again, zoetman
  12. A question, are you using chlorine, bromine, or biguanide as a sanitizer? These are the only three EPA approved sanitizers. Get a good test kit for testing your water, that is the first step. Strips just won't do the job! If you are using chlorine you want to get a Taylor K-2006. If you are using bromine you want a Taylor K-2106. There are no alternatives to chemicals. Baking soda is used to increase the total alkalinity of your water (one of the water parameters that needs to be monitored and adjusted from time to time). Baking soda is just the commom name for sodium bicarbonate, which is sold by pool and spa supply stores and dealers as "total alkalinity increaser" for a high price. It's just baking soday. Perhaps you are referring to what is sometimes callled the BBB method (bleach, borax and baking soda). Bleach is sodium hypochlorite. Same thing as liquid chlorine but about half the strength. It is one of the possible choices to use as a chlorine source if you are using chlorine. If you are using bromine it is an excellent choice for a shock. Borax is used to increase pH without increasing total alkalinity (The chemical usually sold for increasing pH is sodium carbonate (aka washing soda, sal soda, or soda ash) It will increase pH but it also increases total alkalinity, which is not always what is needed. If you are going to use chlorine you need a chlorine source such as bleach, liquid chlorine, or dichlor. The first two are unstabilized chlorine and that actually has advanteages in hot tubs but you migh need to add a very small amount of stabilizer (cyanuric acid) to the water if the tub is exposed to sunlight. Dichlor is stabilized chlorine but it causes stabilizer levels to keep rising and that causes the chlorine to become a less effective santizer when the stabilizer level gets too high. This could allow the bacteria that causes "hot tub itch" to grow in your water. However, if there is no stabilizer in the water at all it's hard to keep a free chlorine level, especially if the tub is exposed to sunlight. If you are using bromine you need sodium bromide, bromine tablets in a floater (optional), and an oxidizer to convert the sodium bromide into active bromine sanitizer. The most commom oxidizers are bleach, liquid chlorine, dichlor, and MPS (postasium monopersulfate or non chlorine shock). My preference is for bleach. In either case you will need baking soda to raise the total alkalinity when it is too low, dry acid (sodium bisulfate which is usually called pH decreaser or pH down or pH minus or a similar name) to lower the pH when it is too high, Borax (from the laundry aisle of the grocery store) to raise pH when it is too low. This is also sold in pool and spa supply stores as a "water enhancers and agae preventative" when used in a 30-50 ppm concentration for a lot of money! I would recommend staying away from the pH increasers that are usually sold. They are sodium carbonate (see above). They will raise your pH AND your total alkalinity together and often your pH is the only thing that needs to be adjusted! Finally, you might need calcium chloride to increase the hardness of your water if your calcium level is below about 125 ppm for acryic spas, 150 ppm for fiberglass, or 200 ppm for plaster. I know it sounds confusing but it really isn't. The first step is to decide if you are going to use chlorine or bromine. Chlorine is a bit simpler but requires daily checks. Bromine is a bit less maintenance once you get it adjusted but bromine is a known sensitizer that some people are allergic to and it has a decided chemical smell. I do not recommend biguanide (SoftSoak, Revacil, BaquaSpa, etc.). It is very expensive and has more disadvantages than advantages IMHO. It will attack certain plastics that are used in spas and it has a tendancy to develop algae, white water mold, and pink slime. It will also require more frequent filter cleanings and replacement! It's main advantage is for people who have a true chemical sensitivity to both bromine and chlorine. These are the only three EPA aproved sanitizers. All other products (ozone, ionizers and other copper/silver systems, UV, enzymes, etc. are supplimentary sanitizers that must be used in conjuction with (usually) chlorine for properly sanitized water. They are NOT stand alone systems. Hope this is helpful. If you read through the forum you will find a lot of information on the proper use of chlorine, bromine and biguanide. Where do I obtain the dry acid (sodium bisulfate) you mention? I got Ph decreaser from the spa store but is there a less expensive source? Also, I am using Chlorine, baking soda and/or Borax, Ph decreaser and MPS. It seems like you are saying here that I don't really need the MPS. Is that true? My interest is not getting overcharged at the spa store but also, I want the least possible chemical smell to my spa possible. thanks, zoetman
  13. A question, are you using chlorine, bromine, or biguanide as a sanitizer? These are the only three EPA approved sanitizers. Get a good test kit for testing your water, that is the first step. Strips just won't do the job! If you are using chlorine you want to get a Taylor K-2006. If you are using bromine you want a Taylor K-2106. There are no alternatives to chemicals. Baking soda is used to increase the total alkalinity of your water (one of the water parameters that needs to be monitored and adjusted from time to time). Baking soda is just the commom name for sodium bicarbonate, which is sold by pool and spa supply stores and dealers as "total alkalinity increaser" for a high price. It's just baking soday. Perhaps you are referring to what is sometimes callled the BBB method (bleach, borax and baking soda). Bleach is sodium hypochlorite. Same thing as liquid chlorine but about half the strength. It is one of the possible choices to use as a chlorine source if you are using chlorine. If you are using bromine it is an excellent choice for a shock. Borax is used to increase pH without increasing total alkalinity (The chemical usually sold for increasing pH is sodium carbonate (aka washing soda, sal soda, or soda ash) It will increase pH but it also increases total alkalinity, which is not always what is needed. If you are going to use chlorine you need a chlorine source such as bleach, liquid chlorine, or dichlor. The first two are unstabilized chlorine and that actually has advanteages in hot tubs but you migh need to add a very small amount of stabilizer (cyanuric acid) to the water if the tub is exposed to sunlight. Dichlor is stabilized chlorine but it causes stabilizer levels to keep rising and that causes the chlorine to become a less effective santizer when the stabilizer level gets too high. This could allow the bacteria that causes "hot tub itch" to grow in your water. However, if there is no stabilizer in the water at all it's hard to keep a free chlorine level, especially if the tub is exposed to sunlight. If you are using bromine you need sodium bromide, bromine tablets in a floater (optional), and an oxidizer to convert the sodium bromide into active bromine sanitizer. The most commom oxidizers are bleach, liquid chlorine, dichlor, and MPS (postasium monopersulfate or non chlorine shock). My preference is for bleach. In either case you will need baking soda to raise the total alkalinity when it is too low, dry acid (sodium bisulfate which is usually called pH decreaser or pH down or pH minus or a similar name) to lower the pH when it is too high, Borax (from the laundry aisle of the grocery store) to raise pH when it is too low. This is also sold in pool and spa supply stores as a "water enhancers and agae preventative" when used in a 30-50 ppm concentration for a lot of money! I would recommend staying away from the pH increasers that are usually sold. They are sodium carbonate (see above). They will raise your pH AND your total alkalinity together and often your pH is the only thing that needs to be adjusted! Finally, you might need calcium chloride to increase the hardness of your water if your calcium level is below about 125 ppm for acryic spas, 150 ppm for fiberglass, or 200 ppm for plaster. I know it sounds confusing but it really isn't. The first step is to decide if you are going to use chlorine or bromine. Chlorine is a bit simpler but requires daily checks. Bromine is a bit less maintenance once you get it adjusted but bromine is a known sensitizer that some people are allergic to and it has a decided chemical smell. I do not recommend biguanide (SoftSoak, Revacil, BaquaSpa, etc.). It is very expensive and has more disadvantages than advantages IMHO. It will attack certain plastics that are used in spas and it has a tendancy to develop algae, white water mold, and pink slime. It will also require more frequent filter cleanings and replacement! It's main advantage is for people who have a true chemical sensitivity to both bromine and chlorine. These are the only three EPA aproved sanitizers. All other products (ozone, ionizers and other copper/silver systems, UV, enzymes, etc. are supplimentary sanitizers that must be used in conjuction with (usually) chlorine for properly sanitized water. They are NOT stand alone systems. Hope this is helpful. If you read through the forum you will find a lot of information on the proper use of chlorine, bromine and biguanide. Where do I obtain the dry acid (sodium bisulfate) you mention? I got Ph decreaser from the spa store but is there a less expensive source? Also, I am using Chlorine, baking soda and/or Borax, Ph decreaser and MPS. It seems like you are saying here that I don't really need the MPS. Is that true? My interest is not getting overcharged at the spa store but also, I want the least possible chemical smell to my spa possible. thanks, zoetman
  14. There is NO SUCH THING as a chemical free pool or spa! Even your ionizer is adding chemicals to the water, most likely copper and silver. Bottom line is this, there are only three EPA approved sanitizers--chlorine, bromine, and biguanide. Everything else is a secondary santizier that MUST be used with a compatible EPA approved sanitizer residual. Some are useful, others are basically snake oil! If you would like to read up on the different sanitizers and on 'chemical free' systems then check out this and this and this. They are some primers that I wrote for newbies. Bromine does have a distinct chemical smell and is a known sensitizer, chlorine when properly done actually has very little smell but is more difficult to maintain than bromine if you don't check on your spa daily. Biguanide (SoftSoak, BaquaSpa, Revacil, etc.) has a lot of problems associated with its use ranging from degredation of plastic parts in the spa (jets and light covers, etc) to water problems like pink slime and white water mold so I would only recommend it as a last resort for someone who is truely allergic to both bromine and chlorine (rare but it does happen). BTW, dealers like biguanide systems because the profit level is very high! For an indoor spa bromine is my santiizer of choice. The reasons get rather technical so I won't go into them here but have a lot to do with the indoor air quality. Thank you. Ok. i read the parts about using Borax and Baking Soda which appeals to me only how much do you need to use each time. Say for example my ph is down. How much of which product do I use to get it up? I'm a newbie so I appreciate your patience.